Puerto Rico’s power grid in ‘critical condition’; officials fear complete collapse

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hillbilly1 said:
Solar panels. But if you don’t have the acreage, your sol!
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Insufficient Sol? SOL!

Honestly, most problems that people deal with are 'political' in nature, where 'political' doesn't mean partisan politics, but the reality that we need _collective_ action and that means convincing other people what action should be taken. Even if we all agreed on the facts it would be hard to come to consensus on best action, and right now with many subjects it is hard to even come to agreement on the background facts.

-Jon
 
winnie said:
Insufficient Sol? SOL!

Honestly, most problems that people deal with are 'political' in nature, where 'political' doesn't mean partisan politics, but the reality that we need _collective_ action and that means convincing other people what action should be taken. Even if we all agreed on the facts it would be hard to come to consensus on best action, and right now with many subjects it is hard to even come to agreement on the background facts.
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You got that right! I love the internet for what it gives me access to, but with that comes the capacity for ill-meaning or simply naive people to spread poisonous misinformation to the masses. I won't give examples but we all know what I am talking about, and it makes consensus building damn near impossible. I hate to sound fatalistic, but I don't see it ever getting better; in fact, I only see it getting worse.
 
winnie said:
Insufficient Sol? SOL!

Honestly, most problems that people deal with are 'political' in nature, where 'political' doesn't mean partisan politics, but the reality that we need _collective_ action and that means convincing other people what action should be taken. Even if we all agreed on the facts it would be hard to come to consensus on best action, and right now with many subjects it is hard to even come to agreement on the background facts.

-Jon
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If you live where you don’t need A/C or heat, or have to dry clothes, yeah 7 kw might work, but I use a minimum 10 kw a day, which leaves virtually no cushion for cloudy days, and winter days where the sun is at a minimum. But there is too much bs about solar being economical being spread on the internet.
 
tortuga said:
Are you sure? Just from my occasional reading of this forum in this one thread so far we have a line up of experts:
  • synchro, petersonra and others are all experienced seasoned expert engineers
  • ggunn seasoned PV engineer with very large PV systems.
  • GeorgeB another expert engineer with experience in Hydraulics
  • AC\DC and Dennis are expert master electricians whom works in coastal areas.
  • Jon456, Fred B and hillbilly1 all seasoned electrician experts
  • Hv&Lv our resident expert lineman
  • electrofelon another PV expert and has experience in low cost 1500v - 2400V distribution.
Thats just the people in this thread, I bet if we had complete access to the distribution maps, specs on the existing generation plants and demand load information this team could come up with a workable plan.
Then fly this team out there and they could oversee the various projects.
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Let's get the dream team together and go fix this thing!😀
 
hillbilly1 said:
But there is too much bs about solar being economical being spread on the internet.
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I don't think that is the case. First, that is way too broad a brush to say solar is economical or not. There are way too many variables to make such a statement. I don't know of anyone who will tell you living off grid is a good idea if you have grid power available. Solar is incredibly economical for me and many people. Others not so much, it really depends.
 
electrofelon said:
I don't think that is the case. First, that is way too broad a brush to say solar is economical or not. There are way too many variables to make such a statement. I don't know of anyone who will tell you living off grid is a good idea if you have grid power available. Solar is incredibly economical for me and many people. Others not so much, it really depends.
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Sure if your off the grid in a remote place, it can be economical. But the majority of the installations are not, and many are grown over in weeds because it’s not economical to fix.
 
electrofelon said:
I don't know of anyone who will tell you living off grid is a good idea if you have grid power available.
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I used to have a job in PV where I had to occasionally man a booth at a trade show. I would ask walkups what they wanted to accomplish with a PV system on their home, and a common response was that they wanted to cut their connection to the grid. My answer to them was always, "No, you probably don't."
 
hillbilly1 said:
Sure if your off the grid in a remote place, it can be economical. But the majority of the installations are not, and many are grown over in weeds because it’s not economical to fix.
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Your implication that a system has to be off grid where the grid is unavailable to be economically viable is incorrect. Maybe things are different where you are, but I don't know of a single PV system around here languishing in disrepair because it would be too expensive to fix.
 
ggunn said:
Maybe things are different where you are, but I don't know of a single PV system around here languishing in disrepair because it would be too expensive to fix.
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Most of our power is hydro, which is way more efficient. There is a lot of solar installs that were abandoned after the government money ran out.
 
petersonra said:
well yes they do and they pay tons of taxes as well.
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No, they do not, and they are not by far the only industry that gets support from the government. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, necessarily; it may be the only way to compete successfully in a world where other countries are doing it.

But in case you haven't noticed, the price tag for solar dropped by 82% between 2010 and 2020 (source: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/06/03/solar-costs-have-fallen-82-since-2010/) and subsidies are being scaled back. It is already economically viable without any subsidies at all in many places.
 
ggunn said:
No, they do not, and they are not by far the only industry that gets support from the government. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, necessarily; it may be the only way to compete successfully in a world where other countries are doing it.

But in case you haven't noticed, the price tag for solar dropped by 82% between 2010 and 2020 (source: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/06/03/solar-costs-have-fallen-82-since-2010/) and subsidies are being scaled back. It is already economically viable without any subsidies at all in many places.
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name a single subsidy that is specific to the fossil fuel industry. just one.
 
Not sure if this link will work but its a interactive map of HV lines in PR

ArcGIS Hub

Discover, analyze and download data from ArcGIS Hub. Download in CSV, KML, Zip, GeoJSON, GeoTIFF or PNG. Find API links for GeoServices, WMS, and WFS. Analyze with charts and thematic maps. Take the next step and create StoryMaps and Web Maps.
hifld-geoplatform.opendata.arcgis.com
 
hillbilly1 said:
If you live where you don’t need A/C or heat, or have to dry clothes, yeah 7 kw might work, but I use a minimum 10 kw a day, which leaves virtually no cushion for cloudy days, and winter days where the sun is at a minimum. But there is too much bs about solar being economical being spread on the internet.
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I worked it out some time ago, so the specifics are hazy, but for the cost of the solar panels and batteries to keep my house going at up to 50 kW-hr/day (average), I could buy a 22 kW generator and all the natural gas to run it for about 10 years.
 
I use about 30kWh/day summer, 10kWh/day winter.

At my location a 10kW array + heat pump would cover my summer usage shoulder season heating, but would not be sufficient for deep winter heating.

Electricity is about $0.24/kWh here. We have the 'net metering' subsidy (free use of the grid as a battery).

With the 'net metering' subsidy and a DIY install, I figure a payback period of about 8 years. If other subsidies are available I will take advantage of them.

-Jon
 
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