Pull Chain Switches

[jmellc]

I think that may be a momentary contact switch, for example to actuate a door opener to either open or close depending on its previous state.
That would need to be confirmed, however.

Yes, that is a door switch. I’ve seen them in various warehouses, etc. Couldnt use for these fans.

 

[SSDriver]

I think that may be a momentary contact switch, for example to actuate a door opener to either open or close depending on its previous state.
That would need to be confirmed, however.

Good catch. It sure would be nice if they stated on the site if it was momentary or not.

 

[__dan]

A very few are on wall switches but are only using 1 speed. They are very high and in awkward locations so they are just left on high.

Adding switches for some would be doable, for others, not so much. High traffic production areas, lots of machinery & piping in the way. Sometimes, no convenient wall or frame to mount a switch. Most fans plug into receptacles mounted on strut with Bell boxes & strut clamps.

RIB-it. For on/off control you can bring the leads out to a RIB relay. The RIB should give you class 2 compliant switch leads and then you can run CL2 thermostat wire to the control location, with your choice of wall switch. You can do a lot of them quicker and much easier than trying to run conduit and power to the new switch.

If you want multispeed and reversing, there's probably a way to do that, with multiple RIBs for each fan, but just one CL2 cable to the fancier switch. One double throw RIB toggles high or low speed, one RIB toggles fwd / rev, one more for on / off. That's an 18-4 CL2 cable to the switch, Micro 800, BAS, ...

I learned to hate pull chain switches at an early age.

 

[MTW]

As suggested earlier to try Zoro.com

Here's the Grainger Listing page for the $53 SP3T switch and their comparables.
https://www.grainger.com/search/ele...switch,+2-speed&tv_optin=true&categoryIndex=3

Then the best Zoro price equivalent $2.45
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-pull-chain-lever-switch-61105/i/G1620900/

Their all China made with the same electrical ratings, other listings to compare.
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Pull-Chain-Switch-34G191
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-replacement-pull-chain-switch-34g191/i/G4981794/?q=34G191
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-switch-pull-chain-01723/i/G7353884/?recommended=true
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-pull-chain-lever-switch-61105/i/G1620900/
https://www.zoro.com/nsi-industries-pull-chain-sp3t-off-on-on-on-75111cq/i/G1629859/
https://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/9213698
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...-Switches/3-speed-pull-sptt-6a-125vac-f-o-o-o
https://www.gardnerbender.com/en/p/GSW-39/DP3T-Variable-Speed-Two-Circuit#

 

[jmellc]

RIB-it. For on/off control you can bring the leads out to a RIB relay. The RIB should give you class 2 compliant switch leads and then you can run CL2 thermostat wire to the control location, with your choice of wall switch. You can do a lot of them quicker and much easier than trying to run conduit and power to the new switch.

If you want multispeed and reversing, there's probably a way to do that, with multiple RIBs for each fan, but just one CL2 cable to the fancier switch. One double throw RIB toggles high or low speed, one RIB toggles fwd / rev, one more for on / off. That's an 18-4 CL2 cable to the switch, Micro 800, BAS, ...

I learned to hate pull chain switches at an early age.

Too much doing. RIB’s would be awkward to attach to the fan. Rounded surfaces. Too large to tuck into the cover. More than 1 RIB totally not doable.

 

[jmellc]

Are they shaded pole or PSC motors? (likely are) If so wire them for the high speed and use a wall speed control switch - or bring necessary leads to some sort of selector type switch that is rated for the load.

If only two speed motor, a double throw toggle can work as speed switch Can even have center off position.

No clue to motor type, just that most fans are 2 speed, no reversing. I think a few are 3?speed. Best I know, all come from Grainger but not all are the same model. I think dept managers buy whatever models they choose & of course the models change.
Just last night, I had to move switches on 2?fans side by side. Someone installed with switches on top side, a manufacturing error IMHO. 1st one, I had to open housing, move capacitor& rotate housing to position switch downside. Major pain. Also had to use a scizzor lift to get high enough to move cord & plug. It was pulled too tight to turn housing.
2nd fan was much easier. Cap & switch were made into the housing cover & cord had slack. Just rotated cover & was done. I took a pic of nameplate but it didn’t come out well.
These may have been built thinking of floor stands. Switch position would have been good then.

 

[jmellc]

As suggested earlier to try Zoro.com

Here's the Grainger Listing page for the $53 SP3T switch and their comparables.
https://www.grainger.com/search/electrical/industrial-controls-automation-and-machine-safety/manual-and-foot-switches/pull-chain-switches?searchQuery=pull+switch,+2-speed&tv_optin=true&categoryIndex=3

Then the best Zoro price equivalent $2.45
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-pull-chain-lever-switch-61105/i/G1620900/

Their all China made with the same electrical ratings, other listings to compare.
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Pull-Chain-Switch-34G191
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-replacement-pull-chain-switch-34g191/i/G4981794/?q=34G191
https://www.zoro.com/dayton-switch-pull-chain-01723/i/G7353884/?recommended=true
https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-pull-chain-lever-switch-61105/i/G1620900/
https://www.zoro.com/nsi-industries-pull-chain-sp3t-off-on-on-on-75111cq/i/G1629859/
https://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/9213698
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...-Switches/3-speed-pull-sptt-6a-125vac-f-o-o-o
https://www.gardnerbender.com/en/p/GSW-39/DP3T-Variable-Speed-Two-Circuit#

Thx, looking these over.

 

[jmellc]

If excessive force is contributing to the failures, perhaps something like the following could help:
Attach a spring (or bungee) in line with the pull chain near the switch. Then attach another chain to limit how far the spring can be pulled down. The upper end of this extra chain would be attached to a fixed point close to the switch. This arrangement would limit how far the spring can be extended and therefore the maximum amount of force that can be applied to the switch.

If this was done I think it would be best to work out the arrangement on the ground, such as confirming the proper selection of the spring, the amount of slack on the extra chain, etc.

That might work. We can usually tie things off to the mounting ring or back of the cage, etc.

We are even arguing over not using strings at all but having dept’s call us to turn on, turn off, change speeds. Only a few favor that, I don’t. A busy day or night would have us doing nothing but fans.

I will try some stuff at the bench with springs or bungee cord.

 

[winnie]

Please let us know the resolution.

I found a datasheet for a pull chain switch. It gives the operating force as 400+-200g but doesn't give the distance the chain needs to move for an operation.
https://www.nteinc.com/switches/pdf/pull-chain.pdf
(don't get me started about g being used as a unit of force)

I think I like the other person's idea of using a spring and rope setup to limit force applied to the switch.

Say you use a tension spring with 1lb/inch of spring constant and the switch operating force is 1lb. To operate the switch you stretch the spring by 1", then the switch moves 3/4" and hits its stop, then you can keep pulling another inch before your mechanical limiter stops the motion of the 'user' end of the spring. The maximum force on the switch is limited to a couple of pounds.

McMaster has 1/2" diameter 'magnetic latch, mortise mount' https://www.mcmaster.com/15735A64/ which has a maximum pull of 13 lbs, and would likely pull apart before the switch breaks, then someone has to come and re-mount the cord.

-Jon

 

[jmellc]

Please let us know the resolution.

I found a datasheet for a pull chain switch. It gives the operating force as 400+-200g but doesn't give the distance the chain needs to move for an operation.
https://www.nteinc.com/switches/pdf/pull-chain.pdf
(don't get me started about g being used as a unit of force)

I think I like the other person's idea of using a spring and rope setup to limit force applied to the switch.

Say you use a tension spring with 1lb/inch of spring constant and the switch operating force is 1lb. To operate the switch you stretch the spring by 1", then the switch moves 3/4" and hits its stop, then you can keep pulling another inch before your mechanical limiter stops the motion of the 'user' end of the spring. The maximum force on the switch is limited to a couple of pounds.

McMaster has 1/2" diameter 'magnetic latch, mortise mount' https://www.mcmaster.com/15735A64/ which has a maximum pull of 13 lbs, and would likely pull apart before the switch breaks, then someone has to come and re-mount the cord.

-Jon

The magnetic cord would constantly get lost. I’m going to work some at the bench with the spring idea. I think that’s the most practical so far.

 

[__dan]

Too much doing. RIB’s would be awkward to attach to the fan. Rounded surfaces. Too large to tuck into the cover. More than 1 RIB totally not doable.

The simple ones are the on / off control only. RIB goes on the outlet box where the 5-15R fan outlet is. I believe the RIB will have its own class 2 transformer inside. The 1/2" threaded stub goes in the outlet box. There are a pair of wires that close to pull in the coil relay. They are CL2 rated. I sleeve them in a piece of romex jacket, run that to outside the box through an RX connector, and then open air splice to the 18-2 bell wire.

I have run the 18-2 CL2 through the bar joist, then swap over to 3/4" EMT for the drop down to the switch, and I like to put in a regular 277V rated commecial toggle, regular light switch. It's easy to do long runs with the 18-2 to the convenient switch location.

If you want an ideal entry level PLC BAS project, the PLC will control the RIBs.

 

[jmellc]

The simple ones are the on / off control only. RIB goes on the outlet box where the 5-15R fan outlet is. I believe the RIB will have its own class 2 transformer inside. The 1/2" threaded stub goes in the outlet box. There are a pair of wires that close to pull in the coil relay. They are CL2 rated. I sleeve them in a piece of romex jacket, run that to outside the box through an RX connector, and then open air splice to the 18-2 bell wire.

I have run the 18-2 CL2 through the bar joist, then swap over to 3/4" EMT for the drop down to the switch, and I like to put in a regular 277V rated commecial toggle, regular light switch. It's easy to do long runs with the 18-2 to the convenient switch location.

If you want an ideal entry level PLC BAS project, the PLC will control the RIBs.

The knockout into the fan is very small, sized for the little switch. Too small for any cable connector. Any cable into the fan would have to be 4 wire. Receptacles are sometimes nearby, sometimes way high above fans and hard to get too. Good idea but too much doing.

 

[jmellc]

I used the spring idea and tinkered with one at the work bench. I think this will be some help and a couple of the guys agreed. Got one prepped & ready for the next service call. Will date the repair and see how long it lasts. Wish I'd thought to date some of the earlier switches to compare. may find a few in my old logs.

 

[jmellc]

Update. I installed a switch this past week & put a spring inline. All good until someone pulled hard & let go quickly. String snapped up & wrapped around fan housing. Fortunately, it didn’t get through the grate to the blades.
Back to the drawing board. The humiliation great minds must endure.