Pulling CAT5e cable over drop ceiling grid

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JohnJ0906 said:
To me, CAT 5 is a communication wire. I guess it is the application. I support all wire. Nothing on a grid.
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John if the Cat 5 is running data it does not fit the stated scope of Article 800.

800.1 Scope.
This article covers telephone, telegraph (except radio), outside wiring for fire alarm and burglar alarm, and similar central station systems; and telephone systems not connected to a central station system but using similar types of equipment, methods of installation, and maintenance.
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If the Cat 5 is being used for voice then IMO it is clearly an Article 800 installation.

Now here is 725s

725.1 Scope.
This article covers remote-control, signaling, and power-limited circuits that are not an integral part of a device or appliance.
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IMO that covers data cabling.

That said, in the real world both voice and data are generally run along common pathways right to the same outlets so it just makes senses to treat them the same with using the more restrictive requirements of 800.
 
iwire said:
That said, in the real world both voice and data are generally run along common pathways right to the same outlets so it just makes senses to treat them the same with using the more restrictive requirements of 800.
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I'm just used to CAT 5 for voice.

Just to get people worked up :)D ) wire of any kind on a ceiling grid will get a red tag around here. And I like it like that.
laughing.gif
 
JohnJ0906 said:
Just to get people worked up :)D ) wire of any kind on a ceiling grid will get a red tag around here. And I like it like that.
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Well I won't get worked up as it does not effect me.:grin:

While I don't like wire on the grid and I tie my work up but I definitely don't like anyone giving out red tags without a code cite with it.

Letting that happen is how we get the 'Not in my Town' mentality from a few inspectors.
 
Well, I know that I can't teel from looking at a CAT 5 run if it is Data or Voice. How can an inspector? Or are the ones supported the voice, and the ones on the grid the data? :D

I support everything, it just irks me when I try to work above an existing grid with a bunch of wires tangling me up all the time.



I think it strange that 800.24, 820.24, and 830.24 are identical, but these requirements are not in 725. Different CMPs?
 
Very curious. 725.7 Handbook comentary has an illustration that shows laying cables on a drop ceiling as a method not permitted. The comentary cites 300.11(A). However, the Code article as written permits cable on the tiles. :-?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
ClearCom,
How does 300.11 apply to an Article 725 Class 2 or 3 circuit? (see 90.3 and 725.3) That being said 725.7 applies, however it doesn't say that you can't lay the Cat-5 on the top of the tiles....it just says you can't put so much cable on top of the tiles so as to make the tiles non-removable.
Don
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Nail on the head. I was told that there is no code that does not allow you to lay a cable on a drop tile ceiling. I was also told that you are a hack if you lay cable on a drop tile ceiling. My employer would not let me get away with it nor would any inspector that I have encountered. A friend of mine told me that when there is a fire in a building with drop tile ceiling the firemen rip the ceiling down with axes. If that were the case I wouldn't like all of those random cables hanging down blocking my egress. Have no idea if that is true or not.
 
Maybe I am miss reading this but when I look at 800.24 Mechanical Execution of Work or 725.8 same title both require support by the building structure and a drop ceiling may be supported by the building structure but is not actually the building structure.
 
725.8 only applies to "cables and conductors installed exposed on the surface of ceilings and sidewalls". The cables in question are not installed on the surface of ceilings or sidewalls.
Don
 
iwire said:
John if the Cat 5 is running data it does not fit the stated scope of Article 800.
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How would you classify VOIP? It's technically data but it's for voice. If someone plugged a computer into the jack, it would be data.

I usually just throw up a few CAT32's or similar J-Hooks and keep all my low-voltage up off of the grid. The local Fire Marshall will usually require us to do so. Also, my boss is a Fire Chief at a local volunteer fire house and he requires it for the reason that MAK pointed out.
 
640.4 and 5
725.7 and 8
760.7 and 8
770.21 and 22
800.21 and 24
820.21 and 24
830.21 and 24

All these have very similear requirements, but only some of them cite 300.11, but all cite 300.4(D)
 
hmmm

hmmm

I was wondering what you meant by cj6 until I had seen shunk's link.....does anyone else call em colorado jim's at least that's what I always call em
 
dirtywater07 said:
I was wondering what you meant by cj6 until I had seen shunk's link.....does anyone else call em colorado jim's at least that's what I always call em
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Nope, I've always heard them referred to as "CJ6's" or even just "straps".
 
Art 725
Part I General - applies to the entire Article unless modified by the other Parts of the Article

725.7 (Part I) Access to Electrical Equipment behind Panels Designed to Allow Access.

This section of Article 725 clearly is the restriction of laying Cat 5 or whatever Cat cable on the ceiling grid in a suspended ceiling.
 
Pierre,
725.7 Access to Electrical Equipment Behind Panels Designed to Allow Access
Access to electrical equipment shall not be denied by an accumulation of wires and cables that prevents removal of panels, including suspended ceiling panels.
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It would take a lot of CAT 5 laying on a ceiling tile to prevent its removal.
Don
 
"It would take a lot of CAT 5 laying on a ceiling tile to prevent its removal."

One time, I needed access above the ceiling grid and I carefully adjusted my ladder under the most appropriate spot. After elevating myself up there I vainly tried to push the piece of glorified sawdust up and it wouldn't budge. Maybe the was an A/C duct? So I resorted to a nearby panel and it moved. Then I got up there and there was a pile of spagetti, er data cable, piled on top of the former panel.
After working up there a while, I happened to notice that one of the strands leading out of that mass wasn't connectected to anything. Further idle observation indicated that none of that glob was connected to anything.
It was I who ended up getting heck from my foreman for taking five costly minutes hauling that tasteless spagetti out to the dumpster.
I think it is traditional or a matter of pride for the data guys to see how much stuff they can leave up there.
From now on the rule shall/should be: if there is data cable in your way, 95% of the time it is abandoned. So cut it all down. Deny it. [Or say I said so.] They will quickly replace anything really important.
~Peter
 
My point is that the cable laying on the tiles is not a violation of 725.7 if you can still remove the tile.
Don
 
It was I who ended up getting heck from my foreman for taking five costly minutes hauling that tasteless spagetti out to the dumpster.


I'm taking it to the scrap yard-enough spaghetti=big$:rolleyes:
 
The job I was on today failed above ceiling because the data/phone cable was in contact with the grid.....to me its just good craftsmanship to keep your system clean and tight and out of harms way.
 
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