Pulling permits for other people

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Rawls007

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A moderately large construction company has asked to hire me for my electrical permit pulling capabilities. They are willing to pay me 5% to 10% of electrical portion of the contract price to pull the permit and call for inspections. This company has their own non licensed electricians that will be doing the work, and I will be granted full authority to inspect their work and make changes if necessary.

Two questions:

I know this type of thing happens all the time, but is it actually legal?

Where I'm from, when permits are pulled the actual job cost must be notated on the form. Can I be audited for pulling these permits and not paying the sales tax on these jobs?
 
Rawls007 said:
A moderately large construction company has asked to hire me for my electrical permit pulling capabilities. They are willing to pay me 5% to 10% of electrical portion of the contract price to pull the permit and call for inspections. This company has their own non licensed electricians that will be doing the work, and I will be granted full authority to inspect their work and make changes if necessary.

Two questions:

I know this type of thing happens all the time, but is it actually legal?

Where I'm from, when permits are pulled the actual job cost must be notated on the form. Can I be audited for pulling these permits and not paying the sales tax on these jobs?
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It most certainly is not legal where I live but there are those who do it "all the time". It is probably not legal where you are at either. It is a dishonest practice and I feel that doing it should be grounds for loss of license and possibly jail time.
 
Rawls007 said:
A moderately large construction company has asked to hire me for my electrical permit pulling capabilities.
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I assume that things are much the same all over the country. They only way that it's legal to permit for a company is to become a full time employee and qualify as master for they company. The catch is that you would have to give up your own business ( here you can only qualify one company ). A letter must be sent to the state with your intent to qualify this company. You become an emlpoyee and they are the EC ( a whole new electrical contracting business ).

If they do several millions in business then 10% would not be to bad. They provide all the money, insurance, employees, everything.

Why not offer to sell them your business and come on-board as consultant and qualifier with a nice fat salary and a 5 year contract. A full time employee doesn't always mean 40 hrs. a week. Nothing keeps you from other business ventures that don't require a license.

If I can ever find a big enough sucker that's what I'm going to do.
 
growler said:
I assume that things are much the same all over the country. They only way that it's legal to permit for a company is to become a full time employee and qualify as master for they company. The catch is that you would have to give up your own business ( here you can only qualify one company ). A letter must be sent to the state with your intent to qualify this company. You become an emlpoyee and they are the EC ( a whole new electrical contracting business ).

If they do several millions in business then 10% would not be to bad. They provide all the money, insurance, employees, everything.

Why not offer to sell them your business and come on-board as consultant and qualifier with a nice fat salary and a 5 year contract. A full time employee doesn't always mean 40 hrs. a week. Nothing keeps you from other business ventures that don't require a license.

If I can ever find a big enough sucker that's what I'm going to do.
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That's one option I've considered. These guys are talking a big game but you know how that goes. They've even offered the possibility of sending me to school to design electrical blueprints for construction projects if I sign on with them. Sounds appealing but then again business has been going pretty good for me so I'm not so eager to jump the gun.
 
I don't think it is illegal maybe. If you have control over the job and the work is performed as you specify, what is it hurting? If the folks worked for you it would not be any different.


There are a few companies around here that pay big money for the use of a license. Most of the companies are industrial building that keep a record of the work performed and there is one annual inspection of what was done.
 
Rawls007 said:
These guys are talking a big game but you know how that goes.
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That's the problem. You have to find someone with the financial backing to make it work. If they don't have the money it's all just so much smoke. If they do have the money then climb on and ride them like a rented mule.

Contracting is a risky business and anytime someone wants to assume the risk and has the financial means to do so, I say let them.

If you can get an engineering degree in the process so much the better.

I would say " show me the money ". If it's there, great, if not then walk away. I had a company offer me a similar deal a couple years back but they were all talk, I'm still waiting. There is a sucker born every minute and I'm waiting for one with more money than brains.

Remember that Bill Gates jumped on the IBM wagen and rode it all the way to the top.
 
Paul B said:
I don't think it is illegal maybe. If you have control over the job and the work is performed as you specify, what is it hurting? If the folks worked for you it would not be any different.
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Maryland has about the same rules as other states.

6.401(d)-1 If an individual obtains a local license by use of the State License of the individual, the local license may be assigned at any one time to only one person engaging in the business of providing electrical services.

You can use it yourself or rent it out to only one entity. A letter is required to chage the status of license.

What is it hurting? You would be breaking the law and subject to discipilary action. License suspension or maybe revocation. Nothing much if you don't like eating.
 
It`s done all the time here.The license holder qualifies the company and is listed as a full time employee.They don`t have to be there at all just cash the check.What is in jeapordy is the license you hold.If you keep track of the permits pulled and the inspections it can be a very lucritive opportunity.If you just allow them to rule the roost well that could become an issue with your license.

I would take it on a situation basis.Is the company stable or fly by night? Do they have more to lose than you do ? I could think of nothing better than collecting big bucks no work and just making sure they do what they need to do :)
 
I don't know what state you are in, but in MA you would need to be an officer of the company and change the name on your masters licence to the company name.
 
"This company has their own non licensed electricians that will be doing the work"

That should say it all, their own non licensed, not qualified, and who knows what what experience level if any they may have.

Now, how is your liability carrier going to view this crazy scheme?

5 to 10% of what electrical project cost, one estimated by a genreal contractor, that is bent in a direction of doing the work with non qualified people?

Do you actually think he intends to do the work in a compliant way, or intends to pay the cost of doing it right, if he did, he would have bid it out to a qualified electrical contractor, he most likely checked and found the cost was beyond what he estimated, and the entire job is based on a bad estimate, and i don't mean just electrical.

"These guys are talking a big game but you know how that goes. They've even offered the possibility of sending me to school to design electrical blueprints for construction projects"

The possibility of sending you to school, to do design work should be a signal he is out of orbet.

Sounds like this guy is a power house, but has a few electrons missing.
 
Allen, can you support your post with some Fl statutes?

The license holder must be available to supervise the work (even if he doesn't) during the companies business hours, in other words he can not be employed elsewhere during the hours his license is be used some where else.

As the others have stated, it is illegal in most states.

Roger
 
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This would not be permitted here. There are many issues to think about.
1. loss of license
2. fines
3. you are responsible for that job mostly forever
4. liability
5. insurance premiums
6. this company will dump you as soon as the job is done
7. your career as a licensee could be in jeopardy

I would tell them to forget it, and if it is not a permitted practice in your jurisdiction, I would notify the building department and the licensing board.

A couple of recent items that happened here in a similar deal.
The license holder lost his license, and was fined $2,000.00
The company paying him was fined $28,000.00
The job was stopped.
Both the licencee and the original company were in litigation for practice that stopped the whole job.
 
roger said:
Allen, can you support your post with some Fl statutes?

The license holder must be available to supervise the work (even if he doesn't) during the companies business hours, in other words he can not be employed elsewhere during the hours his license is be used some where else.

As the others have stated, it is illegal in most states.

Roger
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Roger I am not saying he is employed in another job.He qualifies the company and is listed with the county and/or state as the master electrician for the company.He is paid by the company.I know of many many contractors be it EC,Plumbing,mechanical that are qualified by a master card holder.Time and time again in the classifieds are adds requesting masters to qualify a company.I guess i could search the myflorida.com web site and find the applicable statute that supports it.Do I need to???

It is a common practice and it is repeatidly advertised.The inspectors know that the inspections they are doing are for a license that only qualifies the company.I would imagine if it was ILLEGAL the issue would have come up over the past 20 years I have been here.

I know of one Master that qualified a company 4 years ago for a backer that was from a major communication corporation.They invested piles of money,do you think these guys didn`t do there homework before laying out 7 digits????

Is the masters license holder responsible for each and every job ??? Of course thay are.Are they liable for each and every job ??? Of course they are.
I will look to see if I can find supporting statutes when I get a chance.
 
Is the masters license holder responsible for each and every job ??? Of course thay are.Are they liable for each and every job ??? Of course they are.
I will look to see if I can find supporting statutes when I get a chance.[/QUOTE]

In MA, I believe that the Master is not liable for the work the Journeyman does(if it's wrong) as long as the Master does not know(instruct) the Journeyman to do it in such a manner.

Tom
 
Just a few second search found these

http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/pro/elboard/elect_codes.shtml

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0489/SEC516.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0489->Section%20516#0489.516

So it seems to my laymen eye that as long as they hold a license they not need to own the actual company to conduct business in this state.To conduct business they need to be a qualified license holder.So if they want to allow a company to reap the profits from the actual dollar tranactions that would be the call of the license holder.
 
satcom said:
"This company has their own non licensed electricians that will be doing the work"

That should say it all, their own non licensed, not qualified, and who knows what what experience level if any they may have.
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Non-licensed is not the same thing as not qualified. Most licensing is handled at the state and local level. Perhaps the GC is bringing in its own crew from out of state but just needs a local guy to take care of the paper shuffling.
 
Davis9 said:
Is the masters license holder responsible for each and every job ??? Of course thay are.Are they liable for each and every job ??? Of course they are.
I will look to see if I can find supporting statutes when I get a chance.
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In MA, I believe that the Master is not liable for the work the Journeyman does(if it's wrong) as long as the Master does not know(instruct) the Journeyman to do it in such a manner.

Tom[/QUOTE]

Tom there have been countless cases in which a gun dealer was finacially liable for selling a gun used in an assault/killing.As well as a liquor licence COP holder that have been criminally and finanancially responsible for a customer they served that wound up killing someone in an accident.So a precident as far as resonsiblity has already been set.
 
The General Laws of Massachusetts
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PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER


CHAPTER 141. SUPERVISION OF ELECTRICIANS


Chapter 141: Section 6. Liability for work of employee


Section 6. No person, firm or corporation holding a ?certificate A or certificate C? shall be liable for work done by his or its employees, unless it appears that such work was done with his or its knowledge or consent or by his or its authorization.

This is MA law not made up.
Tom
 
sounds to me like they think they can pull a fast one on a new contractor. Ligitimate companys don't play silly games, if they had people quallified to do the work at least one of them would qualifiy for a licence. In California C-10 is the licence that you hold as an electrical contractor and we are not allowed to hire people that are not cirtified, and you can not "rent out" your licence. It has been my experiance that companys that want to do that always have something questionable going on with thier projects.:cool:
 
acrwc10 said:
sounds to me like they think they can pull a fast one on a new contractor. Ligitimate companys don't play silly games, if they had people quallified to do the work at least one of them would qualifiy for a licence. In California C-10 is the licence that you hold as an electrical contractor and we are not allowed to hire people that are not cirtified, and you can not "rent out" your licence. It has been my experiance that companys that want to do that always have something questionable going on with thier projects.:cool:
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Lets say you have a completly legit company.Aside from not having a licensed master.The employees are quite qualified to do the actual work.But in this scenario they don`t qualify to get a masters license.(this is hypothetical mind you) So they get a licensed master to qualify the company.In this scenario the company pays the licensee to qualify the company and lets say makes the licensee the CEO (on paper) of the now qualified due to the licensee qualifying the company.This is beyond our realm of expertise.Legalities are best left to the Liers I mean lawyers :)
 
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