Pulling Permits for Solar Work

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TheElectricDevil

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St Petersburg, FL
Hi Everyone!
Hoping you can help me. My husband and I started an Electrical Contracting company last year. We just finished up our first year in business and... wow... just wow! This entrepreneur thing is tough! Anyhow, we're learning a lot as we go and trying to build our business. We were recently approached by my husband's supervisor from his last job. His supervisor does not have his electrical contractor's license. He's a great electrician and does quality work but he just can't get through the "book" stuff to get licensed. In any event, he is now doing solar installs for a reputable company - I checked them out, but he needs a licensed electrical contractor to pull the permits. He also doesn't have the time to do the paperwork and wants to hire us to do the paperwork for him, and pay us to pull permits. We have known this man for years and like I stated before, he does quality work and is an honest guy. Now I have several questions because if we do all the permits for him, we could make some much needed money to help grow our business (this company did $3mil in sales last year). So is it worth getting into? I can't see there being an issue with liability but I'm not sure? What would we charge for this? I don't know where to start as this is very foreign to me. Do we have them pay x amount monthly for unlimited permit pulling or do we charge per permit? So lost. Any ideas, thoughts? Anything is appreciated.
 
I would think if he is not an employee of your company and you pull the permit, you have almost all of the liability. You might be able to mitigate some liability if you inspect each project before it is energized.

In the engineering world, to do this is illegal. Check your state or jurisdiction to be sure you can do this without direct supervision of the project as your licensing rules might be similar to engineering rules.
 
Here in NJ, the solar company has to put the license holder on their books and pay them a salary. your license # goes on their vehicles.
the license holder must supervise the work.
All states are different, get clarification from your state on how to do this.
 
You pull the permit you are responsible.
If he needs a license to work as a independent contractor then you could face labor law issues.
If he is so good then you should hire him.
 
Is he doing both AC & DC side of the PV? AC wiring requires the EC lic. who is responsible for all work done. The only way he could work AC under your EC lic is to be an employee or have an EC lic. For the DC side most require NABCEP or COSIA(which I believe is no longer) credentials. I would shy away from being responsible for work I did not supervise. or open up a PV branch.
 
I never quite understand why anyone thinks these kinds of deals ever make any sense to the EC who is just "pulling a permit".

The amount of money they get for doing so is relatively small and they acquire almost unlimited liability that might not be covered by their liability insurance, given its dubious legality.

It is like the guys that pay their employees on a 1099. It is just one injury away from being a really serious financial disaster.
 
Here in CA it's actually against the law to pull a permit for someone else.

Oh and most large solar companies hold an electrical contractors license too.
 
TheElectricDevil said:
Hi Everyone!
Hoping you can help me. My husband and I started an Electrical Contracting company last year. We just finished up our first year in business and... wow... just wow! This entrepreneur thing is tough! Anyhow, we're learning a lot as we go and trying to build our business. We were recently approached by my husband's supervisor from his last job. His supervisor does not have his electrical contractor's license. He's a great electrician and does quality work but he just can't get through the "book" stuff to get licensed. In any event, he is now doing solar installs for a reputable company - I checked them out, but he needs a licensed electrical contractor to pull the permits. He also doesn't have the time to do the paperwork and wants to hire us to do the paperwork for him, and pay us to pull permits. We have known this man for years and like I stated before, he does quality work and is an honest guy. Now I have several questions because if we do all the permits for him, we could make some much needed money to help grow our business (this company did $3mil in sales last year). So is it worth getting into? I can't see there being an issue with liability but I'm not sure? What would we charge for this? I don't know where to start as this is very foreign to me. Do we have them pay x amount monthly for unlimited permit pulling or do we charge per permit? So lost. Any ideas, thoughts? Anything is appreciated.
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You're leaving something out, maybe because you don't know what it consists of. Why does he want to drop the people he's working for and 'hire' you? Probably because he thinks he's getting a bigger slice of the pie that way. Which means you should ask yourself, why is the solar company he's working for taking so much, and can you afford to take less?

What others have said is correct. Look up your state laws and regulations. You probably have to hire him, officially speaking, to make this work. This probably means the customer pays you and then he gets his portion. 'Supervision' could maybe consist of having him send you pictures of every install so you can monitor quality, if your state doesn't have more stringent requirements. You are probably taking a huge risk if you just 'do paperwork' and don't monitor his work such that you can show awareness of everything you might be held responsible for. If he's honest with you and you like him, as you say, he should have no problem with this setup.

mwm1752 said:
Is he doing both AC & DC side of the PV? AC wiring requires the EC lic. who is responsible for all work done. The only way he could work AC under your EC lic is to be an employee or have an EC lic. For the DC side most require NABCEP or COSIA(which I believe is no longer) credentials. I would shy away from being responsible for work I did not supervise. or open up a PV branch.
Click to expand...

Most states with real solar industries don't require NABCEP. (Why should state licensing be handed over to a third party NGO? Does any other industry have such a thing?) An electrical contractor's license would be required for PV, unless there's a solar specific license, such as in CA. I don't know about Florida.

electrofelon said:
Is this guy a licensed electrician? In many jurisdictions, being an EC and a licensed electrician are different things.
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FWIW, here in California we call one an licensed electrical contractor and the other a certified journeyman electrician.
 
jaggedben said:
Most states with real solar industries don't require NABCEP. (Why should state licensing be handed over to a third party NGO? Does any other industry have such a thing?) An electrical contractor's license would be required for PV, unless there's a solar specific license, such as in CA. I don't know about Florida.
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Here in my area it is not the state exactly requiring NABCEP it has been the rebate programs that require it.

In other words my electrical license is enough for me to design, install and put into operation a PV system but if I want the incentives NABCEP is in the mix.



FWIW, here in California we call one an licensed electrical contractor and the other a certified journeyman electrician.
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Here in MA a journeyman can be a small contractor with no more than one apprentice working under them.

A master can run any size electrical contracting business.

There isn't a contracting license.
 
Most states with real solar industries don't require NABCEP. (Why should state licensing be handed over to a third party NGO? Does any other industry have such a thing?) An electrical contractor's license would be required for PV, unless there's a solar specific license, such as in CA. I don't know about Florida.


unless there's a solar specific license??? you lost me there Jeb what is a specific solar lic? one that an electrical contractor can buy or takes a state test. Is there an apprenticeship? What grind do the real solar industries have with North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP)?
 
mwm1752 said:
unless there's a solar specific license??? you lost me there Jeb what is a specific solar lic?
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In California it's a C46. Not sure how many other states have something similar but I feel like I've heard of a few.

The C46 in California qualifies you for either PV or solar thermal. If you have a C10 (electrical) you can install PV but not solar thermal.

one that an electrical contractor can buy or takes a state test. Is there an apprenticeship?
Click to expand...

You have to have 4 years of work experience in the industry and pass the exam.

What grind do the real solar industries have with North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP)?
Click to expand...

I think NABCEP played a very useful role before the industry grew and developed standard products and practices. But their requirements are pretty extensive, and I've heard some stories of some pretty arbitrary application rejections. Bottom line, there is a small percentage of NABCEP certified professionals among solar contractors because it's more hoops to jump through than seems reasonable. Making it a state requirement is going to have the effect of making the solar industry smaller and less competitive than the market may call for. That's my belief, anyway.
 
jaggedben said:
In California it's a C46. Not sure how many other states have something similar but I feel like I've heard of a few.

The C46 in California qualifies you for either PV or solar thermal. If you have a C10 (electrical) you can install PV but not solar thermal.



You have to have 4 years of work experience in the industry and pass the exam.



I think NABCEP played a very useful role before the industry grew and developed standard products and practices. But their requirements are pretty extensive, and I've heard some stories of some pretty arbitrary application rejections. Bottom line, there is a small percentage of NABCEP certified professionals among solar contractors because it's more hoops to jump through than seems reasonable. Making it a state requirement is going to have the effect of making the solar industry smaller and less competitive than the market may call for. That's my belief, anyway.
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Many <strike that> some jurisdictions around here require that a solar contractor have at least one NABCEP Solar Professional on board or on retainer. I have that certification and it wasn't easy to get, but having it opened some doors for me. There are a lot of folks who see solar as a burgeoning industry and decide to get into it without really understanding how it works, and the AHJ's that require a NABCEP certed person on board use that requirement to help them ensure that designs and installations are done correctly and safely. That is the thinking, anyway, by Austin Energy, the AHJ I am most familiar with.
 
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