pump question

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Ok guys, I need your help. I just installed a 60hp 460/3 submersible sewage pump. The operator where it was installed called after he attempted to start the pump and advised me that the pump would not start. After all the checks were made, (voltage) I noticed that the contacts in the starter were "welded" together, but the overloads were tripped. After removing the pump and tearing it down, the motor windings were shorted to ground. The control panel where this motor is controlled has phase protection also. The pump was tested before it was installed and ran fine. Any ideas what could have happened?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
One would be inclined to wonder about the motor contactor if the overloads tripped and the contacts were unable to open. I have never heard of a brand new motor starter doing this.

Did the branch circuit breaker trip?
 

Bob NH

Senior Member
One rule of failure analysis is that there is usually one root cause of a failure. It is likely that the welding of contacts caused the failure of the motor. Reason that the breaker didn't open is not clear.

If the pump was jammed at startup, it would be drawing locked rotor current. When the overload or the breaker tries to open the contactor, it is working at locked rotor current. That could be enough to weld the contacts when it was trying to open. The probablility of that kind of failure would be increased if the starter is near the size required for the motor.

Another cause could be if the flow condition was such as to rotate the pump backwards, and the pump is started during reverse rotation. That could be the case if there is no mechanical device, such as a check valve, to prevent backflow.

If there is a risk of backflow, or if the controls are such as to permit quick restart, one possible solution is to put in a time-delay circuit to prevent rapid restart.

Another possibility is that in a new installation, the operator was experimenting with operation, without realizing the significance of what he was doing. It might be possible to try to restart a reverse rotating motor. Some guy could stand there hitting the red button and the green button to see what happens.
 
Ok let me ask you this. Is it possible that the motor may have been bad when the contacter was activated causing the contacts to weld together?
 

kingpb

Senior Member
Location
SE USA as far as you can go
Occupation
Engineer, Registered
If this job was performed based on a specifcation, then you need to pull the pump, motor and any other equipment installed, gather all the data, and check against the specifcations.

If this was a vertical sewage pump, typically they are specified with non-reversing rachets so that it cannot spin backwards.

Check fault current calculations, If the withstand rating of a motor starter is exceeded, components such as the contactor and overload relay could fail, even if the current is successfully interrupted by the protective device.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
From my experience with lift station pumps there are a number of possibilities. Like any forensic evaluation, you need to determine the first point of failure, and keep in mind that does not mean it is the ONLY point of failure.

Contrary to what was implied above, contactors are specifically designed to interrupt locked rotor current for their rated load, so don't start there. This eliminates a jammed pump because if that happened, the OL would trip and the contactor would open normally; that's what it is designed to do! Turning on into a back-spinning load may damage the pump, but the motor cannot pull more than locked rotor current, so the above still applies.

Contacts weld for a number of reasons, but NEW contacts weld for far fewer. Here is my short list:
1) Lightning. You would probably know if that was the cause from other obvious evidence however.

2) The contactor was seriously undersized. This has an entire new list of subcategories, one of which was already mentioned, i.e. wrong voltage? If you supplied a 480V rated contactor and they connected to 208 or 230V, the contactor was grossly undersized. The motor would not have developed sufficient torque to accelerate however, so if it were a centrifugal pump it would not have any flow, hence low current as well and it would have just overloaded. So the welded contacts would only be caused by this if it is a PD lift pump, which is rare.

3) Rapid cycling. If the start/stop control system was not properly set or designed, the starter could have been rapidly cycling on and off, even chattering. This welds contacts faster than anything else normal. Check how they are calling for the pump. If they are relying only on one float, it MUST have a hysteresis in its operation; a significant difference in where the contacts close to call for the pump and where they open again to stop it. Otherwise, turbulence in the wet well will chatter the contactor. If they have 2 floats, a start and a stop, there must still be sufficient distance between them to prevent this from happening.

4) A mechanical jam of the contactor assembly itself. Debris from installation (which explains why it worked before it left) such as drill tailings or wire insulation ends from stripping, can fall into the armature of the contactor and jam into it, preventing it from opening. If that happened, the well would run dry, the motor would eventually seize and the overload relay would trip long after the damage was done.

5) Attempted manual operation. A lot of contactors operate on a horizontal plane, so there is a plunger-like indicator on the front that sucks in when the contactor coil is energized. A LOT of inexperienced people will check for rotation by thinking of this as a "manual override" button for the control circuit. What they don't realize is that on something as big as a 60HP contactor, a human finger cannot exert enough pressure on that "go button" to overcome the magnetic forces that are trying to push the contacts apart. The result is, the contacts are chattering, even if not audibly or visually, and they weld VERY rapidly. They realize right away what they have done, but they NEVER admit it!

If I were to bet, I'd go for #4 or 5.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
hardworkingstiff said:
Locked rotor and fault currents are two different animals.

I know.
I wasn't responding to your post, but rather the one above it from Bob NH where he said "...it is working at locked rotor current. That could be enough to weld the contacts when it was trying to open. " That gives the impression that contactors cannot open under locked rotor conditions and that is just not true.
 

hardworkingstiff

Senior Member
Location
Wilmington, NC
Jraef said:
I know.
I wasn't responding to your post, but rather the one above it from Bob NH where he said "...it is working at locked rotor current. That could be enough to weld the contacts when it was trying to open. " That gives the impression that contactors cannot open under locked rotor conditions and that is just not true.

Agreed, sorry, my bad.
 
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