Push in wire connectors

[electrofelon]

I agree they are higher quality than "backstabs". That being said, at the end of the day, push-in connectors are still just a piece of spring steel making an electrical connection. There is nothing that will convince me that is on par with plain old copper to copper contact with a wirenut hold it together. When properly installed, a wirenut splice is a bulletproof connection. A piece of spring steel on the other hand is future failure point in my opinion.

Im with ya...also kinda scared of those things and use wirenuts exclusively, but I cant help but wonder if back when wirenuts first came out, many guys were like, "screw those things, I'm sticking to my solder" :lol:

 

[peter d]

Im with ya...also kinda scared of those things and use wirenuts exclusively, but I cant help but wonder if back when wirenuts first came out, many guys were like, "screw those things, I'm sticking to my solder" :lol:

Oh, no doubt about it. I think there is always resistance to all things new. However, "new" does not always mean "better" and in this case I don't think the new is better at all. In fact, I think it's quite inferior.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I use the Wago 221 & 773 line, great items. There are reasons to use 773's or 221's. If it's a permanent splice that has low probability of needing to expand (light, etc), 773. If there is probability for expansion or change, the 221's make it real ez.

Both are way easier than caps. Five 12's in a cap is a pita, but simple for 221 or 773, etc.

As far as conductivity goes, all good.

 

[sameguy]

Im with ya...also kinda scared of those things and use wirenuts exclusively, but I cant help but wonder if back when wirenuts first came out, many guys were like, "screw those things, I'm sticking to my solder" :lol:

Nothing like trying to take a solder splice apart!
Not to start a fire about twist or not, but twist solid add wire nut.

 

[kwired]

I agree they are higher quality than "backstabs". That being said, at the end of the day, push-in connectors are still just a piece of spring steel making an electrical connection. There is nothing that will convince me that is on par with plain old copper to copper contact with a wirenut hold it together. When properly installed, a wirenut splice is a bulletproof connection. A piece of spring steel on the other hand is future failure point in my opinion.

A wire nut is also a piece of spring steel inside an insulating cap. Most failures of those are also a result of installer error.

I look at the push in connectors and do have a certain amount of doubt on how good they may be, but at same time am not seeing any kind of failure rate to say for certain that they are no good.

Though I almost never use backstabs on switches/receptacles, most failed ones I recall seeing were with use of 12 AWG conductor, and usually were older devices that would accept 12 AWG. I still think one of biggest issues with them is conductors are too stiff to push against when installing the device to the box and the resulting strain on the connection doesn't do the connection any good. Plus with receptacles you can have heat develop between plug and receptacle and that heat is conducted to the backstab connection causing further issues with that connection.

 

[Frank DuVal]

I use the WAGOs that come already in the recessed lights. Why remove them?

I "never"* twist wires before twisting on wirenuts. I read the directions......

I also put my ground pin at the bottom to make a face...... Oh no, don't start that one also!

Any of the above processes work when done properly. Your choice.

You've seen WAGO failures? I've seen wirenut failures also. Blame the installer, not the product.





* Of course, sometimes I have........ When they just will not lay together nicely.

 

[sameguy]

1) I'm an Electrician, I don't read instructions!!

 

[FionaZuppa]

I use the WAGOs that come already in the recessed lights. Why remove them?

I "never"* twist wires before twisting on wirenuts. I read the directions......

When using the proper installation of a nut-cap per instructions, the tips of the wires simple get pinched into the spring-cone-wire of the nut. I always wondered how much surface contact there is between wires and how much amps actually flow through the cap-cone-wire from one conductor to another.

the clamps (Wago 221 or 773, and the like) use a simpler "bus" to carry the amps between wires, and from what i have seen over many years, stay intact better that a wire nut-cap. I not saying the cap is to blame, as mentioned, poor installation is 98% of the failure, hence the 221/773's and the like take away some of the installation woes making it a better connection.

That said, failure using 221/773's and the like can still happen, like lazy guy/gal failing to push the wire all the way in, or didnt strip the wire enough, but i think these err's are less often than failed installation of caps.

I see failures of caps (loose, fell off, wires twisted with pliers so cap didnt grab right, etc etc) more often in track homes because the electrical outfit wants to rush through and move into the next job of track homes.

I advocate use of Wago 221 and 773's (or the like). Try them and you (the reader) will probably stop using the caps.

 

[peter d]

A wire nut is also a piece of spring steel inside an insulating cap.

:huh:

I don't get the comparison. In fact, you're comparing apples to hamburgers. The way the spring steel is used to make the connection is completely different. In the push-in, the spring steel makes the actual connection. With a wirenut, it only binds a mechanically made connection together.

After many current cycles, is that spring steel in the push-in going to hold up? Time will tell.

 

[electrofelon]

I use the WAGOs that come already in the recessed lights. Why remove them?

I "never"* twist wires before twisting on wirenuts. I read the directions......

All the instructions I have seen say pretwisting as allowed. Pretwisting allows inspection of the joint before installing the nut. The other problem with not pretwisting is often the installer doesn't twist enough - the wires still need to be twisted whether it is pre or with the nut.

 

[kwired]

:huh:

I don't get the comparison. In fact, you're comparing apples to hamburgers. The way the spring steel is used to make the connection is completely different. In the push-in, the spring steel makes the actual connection. With a wirenut, it only binds a mechanically made connection together.

After many current cycles, is that spring steel in the push-in going to hold up? Time will tell.

There are differences, I wouldn't say the comparison is as extreme as apples to hamburgers. Maybe apples to another fruit.

In the twist on wire connector the spring surrounds the conductors, the primary connection is direct contact between the conductors and the spring keeps pressure between the conductors. That spring does deform when used - put three #12 into most yellow's then remove and compare the spring to an unused connector - it has been stretched from use.

I took a Wago push in apart - there is two metallic pieces inside. A fixed bar and the spring pressure piece. Primary connection is contact between fixed bar and conductors, the spring piece is there to assure pressure to this connection.

Some similarities yet some differences between the two. But both are relying on spring pressure to maintain contact.

 

[mlnk]

All the instructions I have seen say pretwisting as allowed. Pretwisting allows inspection of the joint before installing the nut. The other problem with not pretwisting is often the installer doesn't twist enough - the wires still need to be twisted whether it is pre or with the nut.

In my experience you must twist the wires and create a secure mechanical and electrical connection before installing a wire nut. Try it yourself. Put a bunch of straight wires into a wire nut and twist all you want Then take the wire nut off. You might get some twisting if you are connecting only two wires but more than two I think that will remain straight

 

[rambojoe]

In my experience you must twist the wires and create a secure mechanical and electrical connection before installing a wire nut. Try it yourself. Put a bunch of straight wires into a wire nut and twist all you want Then take the wire nut off. You might get some twisting if you are connecting only two wires but more than two I think that will remain straight

that is what the directions on the say to do... pretwist,trim, then cap...

 

[peter d]

There are differences, I wouldn't say the comparison is as extreme as apples to hamburgers. Maybe apples to another fruit.

In the twist on wire connector the spring surrounds the conductors, the primary connection is direct contact between the conductors and the spring keeps pressure between the conductors. That spring does deform when used - put three #12 into most yellow's then remove and compare the spring to an unused connector - it has been stretched from use.

I took a Wago push in apart - there is two metallic pieces inside. A fixed bar and the spring pressure piece. Primary connection is contact between fixed bar and conductors, the spring piece is there to assure pressure to this connection.

Some similarities yet some differences between the two. But both are relying on spring pressure to maintain contact.

We can agree to disagree on this one. I'm not using them other than for normally non-current carrying uses (EGC's) and small current (ballasts). Others can do as they wish.

 

[K8MHZ]

that is what the directions on the say to do... pretwist,trim, then cap...

Not all directions say that.

[h=1]Ideal Industries Inc, 30-341J, Twister 341 Wire Connector, Tan[/h]Accepts 3 #22 to 3 #10 AWG wire combinations. Rated for 600 Volt maximum. Swept-wing design for comfort. Live-action, square-wire spring.Hexagonal shape for standard nutdriver. No pre-twisting required.

 

[Craigv]

Six of one and a half-dozen of the other. I've twisted. I've not twisted. I've used wagos (well, actually mostly Ideal's versions). All have worked when all is done right. Each has failed when I've managed to short-circuit the proper installation method. I like wagos for repairs where there's barely any wire in the box and for crowded boxes...in my opinion a wago'd connection takes far less space than twisted wires, and offers more flexibility in positioning within the box. But I won't attempt to straighten conductors that have been previously twisted, just to use a wago. Those will get another new wire nut installed.

 

[K8MHZ]

The in line splices come in real handy at times.

http://www.idealindustries.ca/produ...INE&div=0&l1=push-in_connectors&l2=spliceline

 

[readydave8]

years ago bought a few thousand Ideal type at a bargain

and gradually started using a few here and there

lately been using them frequently

I remember one that failed, didn't have the wire pushed in all the way

and one that arced, I think same reason

so overall have had good success and will continue to use

also: can not remember any failing that come in light fixtures

 

[rambojoe]

Not all directions say that.

Ideal Industries Inc, 30-341J, Twister 341 Wire Connector, Tan

Accepts 3 #22 to 3 #10 AWG wire combinations. Rated for 600 Volt maximum. Swept-wing design for comfort. Live-action, square-wire spring.Hexagonal shape for standard nutdriver. No pre-twisting required.

tans...that's so residential...just kidding. well somegun, the bag of reds right by me says "pre twisting acceptable but not required". when the heck did that happen? oopsie.. but it then shows the god awful rookie habit of twisting 3 or 4" of the conductor below the nut! I don't pre twist anyway..

still, I love opening boxes and saying "oh look, he had wegos in his purse!" c'mon, nuts build dexterity!
"for comfort"... that's what high grade tequila is for...

 

[kwired]

tans...that's so residential...just kidding. well somegun, the bag of reds right by me says "pre twisting acceptable but not required". when the heck did that happen? oopsie.. but it then shows the god awful rookie habit of twisting 3 or 4" of the conductor below the nut! I don't pre twist anyway..

still, I love opening boxes and saying "oh look, he had wegos in his purse!" c'mon, nuts build dexterity!
"for comfort"... that's what high grade tequila is for...

AFAIK most of the popular ones out there for the past 30 years have not required pre-twisting the conductors.