PUSHMATIC split bus panel

[g-and-h_electric]

Hey guys I need some help here...... Have a customer of the shop where I did not estimate the job originally, and the homeowner is gravely ill (this factors into rpicing NOT quality of work)

I have a PUSHMATIC split bus panel. The panel has the usual 60 amp main for 10 circuits beneath it Above this are only 2 double pole breakers. 1 is a 50 Amp the range, the other is a 60 Amp feeding a sub panel. In the sub panel are the following circuits: A) dishwasher, B Boiler, C Sum pump + Washer, D basement receptacles(?), E 240 Volt air handler (1/2 HP2.5 RL amp as per MFG spec) , F 240 Volt 2 1/2 ton ( 12.5 amp RL as per mfg spec), G electric dryer.

Needless to say the sub APPEARS to be overloaded.

So my question is this (remember I am TRYING to avoid a full changeout). I have a PUSHMATIC 2 pole 100 with lugs on it. Can I relocate the range breaker down 1 space, use the 2 pole 100 as a MAIN, and use the old line lugs to feed the sub panel (using at least #3 Cu)?

This appears to be a a code approved work around to get everything working SAFELY.

If the consensus of opinion is to just change the whole mess to a new panel, so be it, but I am TRYING to save face, as the apparent overload in the sub was MY mistake.

Thoughts guys?


Howard

 

[synchro]

On the 100A 2-pole Pushmatic breaker you have is the hole for screw attachment to the bus centered like the first one below, or is it on the right side like the second one? There might not be a hole in the panel bus that aligns with the first type, because I believe most branch breakers are like the second type. It's worth checking this if you haven't done so already.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~FUAAOSw8oFX0dpE/s-l1600.jpg

http://img.ycpix.com/listimg/img1_0317/15/img_C3IudcAdr6PPbtz_r.jpg

 

[synchro]

I believe the breaker with the centered mounting hole was intended for use as a back-fed main because its mounting tab/connection is substantially wider. Also the centered screw location makes a firmer and more stable attachment than the other kind.

 

[qcroanoke]

What is the buss rated?

 

[g-and-h_electric]

(done with the cleanup from Thursday night's storm for a minute)

The breaker I have has both sets of screw holes, so it should fit ( might be a "junk" bus set at the shop to check with), and as to the rating of the panel bus, it should be at least 100 Amp, as the it has a 60 Amp sub breaker, and space for 2 more 2 pole breakers. The incoming wire is at least #2 copper, so I should be good for 100 Amp.

Again aside from the age of the PUSHMATIC gear any reasons not to do what I proposed (remember I didnt estimate the job for the shop, nor see it before I started thing Friday, and it was MY math that was off for my subfeed) ?


Howard

 

[ramsy]

..I have a PUSHMATIC 2 pole 100 with lugs on it. Can I relocate the range breaker down 1 space, use the 2 pole 100 as a MAIN, and use the old line lugs to feed the sub panel (using at least #3 Cu)?

As synchro noted, Pushmatics that come with lugs are usually branch breakers, except for synchro photo that shows MAIN modified - lugs added.

Pushmatic MAIN breaker bolt-on positions are closser together than branch breakers, the two are not simply interchangeable.

 

[Eddie702]

I would calculate the load to start with. If the calculated load is less than what the bus & panel is rated at then you ok to figure out a work around.

Based on what you listed it looks to me like you can probably squeak by with 100 amps

 

[g-and-h_electric]

It looks like this was a factory main...... has "MAIN" silk screened on it, lug covers with "ITE" logo on them, and double holes for the bus.

I am attaching pictures, sorry if some are lousy.... cheapie old digital camera.

Looks like it should fit the panel, and if it does looks like we are good to go to make a main brealer panel and fix my "oopsy"


Howard

 

[g-and-h_electric]

Eddie,

Thank you! At this point in time it is an older couple there, so in general there isnt much continuous load.... I figured one "opps" was enough and just want to make things work SAFELY for these nice folks, without making a big job for me to do.


Howard

 

[ramsy]

It looks like this was a factory main.. ..and double holes for the bus..

Yes that is interchangeable.
Never seen such an animal.
Thanks for posting the photos

 

[g-and-h_electric]

PERFECT.......

I figured the pictures should answer all questions.... I have converted other panels to main breaker, but this being a split bus, I wasnt absolutely certain.... the shop will be happy, and it shouldnt a big deal to do this

You guys have once again saved me! I got to quit trying to engineer some stuff in the field and in a hurry!


howard

 

[g-and-h_electric]

It is completed... THANK YOU to all!... Not my prettiest trim, but it is safe... I did make note that the panel has a 100 Amp rating