Quad breaker?

[GerryB]

I'll call it a quad, two tandems in a 2 pole, the middle two have a pin between them and the outer two have a metal tie. Do they still make them? It is a Challenger panel but I don't know what brand the quad is. The handles are red, 2 20a in the middle for an ac handler and 2 outside 20's for his well pump. His panel is really jammed and boxed in with no room (convenient) to do a sub panel.

 

[ActionDave]

Cutler Hammer BR can bail you out, however, if you take a good look at the branch circuits I would bet there is a couple that could be combined into one circuit and free up some space. You would still use a BR breaker but it would be a less expensive one.

 

[curt swartz]

Cutler Hammer (Eaton) is the direct replacement for Challenger. Yes they still make Quad breakers but the handles no longer com in designer colors other than black.

 

[Sierrasparky]

The outside of these quads are not common trip though.

 

[GoldDigger]

There are a wide variety of combinations of trip type. Is it true that, possibly for mechanical reasons, none of them offer common trip for the outer pair?
That would make the outer handle tie useful only for an MWBC.

 

[Soopr38]

CH quad breaker

CH quad breaker

CH makes a common trip inner AND outer breaker in a quad.






edit to remove borderline soliciting

 

[macmikeman]

The outside of these quads are not common trip though.

That is the case for Siemens but not Cuttler Hammer BR type quads. The latter come with a common trip handle bar for the outside pair and a common trip handle bar for the inside two , giving you two 24O volt circuits. Cuttler BR is the listed replacement for Challenger.

 

[GoldDigger]

The handle tie provides for common manual activation, but usually cannot provide common trip on a fault on one leg.
I suppose that a manufacturer could design a unit so that the handle tie crested a common trip, but I have not seen one.

 

[cpinetree]

The handle tie provides for common manual activation, but usually cannot provide common trip on a fault on one leg.
I suppose that a manufacturer could design a unit so that the handle tie crested a common trip, but I have not seen one.

See post #6 by Soopr38

They are made and we use them when we need to.

Our local supply house that handles Cutler Hammer refuses to stock the common trip because they cost more, and no one orders them. (says something about the electricians installing them I think :thumbsdown: )

The independent trip on the outside poles (with a rejection tab, type CTL) are model#'s starting BQ

The non-CTL versions (no rejection tab) are:
BRDC series - common trip, inner and outer poles
BRD series - common trip inner poles, independent trip outer poles

 

[cpinetree]

That is the case for Siemens but not Cuttler Hammer BR type quads. The latter come with a common trip handle bar for the outside pair and a common trip handle bar for the inside two , giving you two 24O volt circuits. Cuttler BR is the listed replacement for Challenger.

Siemens makes the common trip inner & outer pole breaker also.
They refer to them as QT quadplex common trip breakers.
Their catalog numbers end in CT2 for the common trip (Q23030CT2)

 

[Sierrasparky]

Siemens makes the common trip inner & outer pole breaker also.
They refer to them as QT quadplex common trip breakers.
Their catalog numbers end in CT2 for the common trip (Q23030CT2)

As stated by other the ouside are not internal common trip just a handle tie. They will not if or at all the time trip both poles of the outside handles.

 

[GoldDigger]

As stated by other the ouside are not internal common trip just a handle tie. They will not if or at all the time trip both poles of the outside handles.

Are you willing to believe the actual Siemens catalog pages on the breakers? http://www.relectric.com/datasheets...ram+files\tabula+dx\pdf\siemens\siemens_4.pdf,

QT Duplex: Two independent poles in one slot width.
QT Triplex: Two common trip center poles and two independent trip outer poles in two slot widths.
QT Quadplex: Two sets of common trip poles (inner and outer) in two slot widths.
The latter includes the Q23030CT2

 

[Sierrasparky]

Are you willing to believe the actual Siemens catalog pages on the breakers? http://www.relectric.com/datasheets...ram+files\tabula+dx\pdf\siemens\siemens_4.pdf,

QT Duplex: Two independent poles in one slot width.
QT Triplex: Two common trip center poles and two independent trip outer poles in two slot widths.
QT Quadplex: Two sets of common trip poles (inner and outer) in two slot widths.
The latter includes the Q23030CT2

sure , if that is what is says.

So then there is not requirement for internal common trip?

 

[GoldDigger]

sure , if that is what is says.

So then there is not requirement for internal common trip?

We do not know whether or not there is an internal common trip mechanism in addition to the handle ties. It is all inside the common molded case.
Like you, I know that just handle ties alone do not guarantee a common trip unless the interaction of trip mechanism and handle was designed with that as a goal. It seems inconsistent with the trip free handle design and with resistance to vibration and accidental tripping, so I do suspect that there is an internal link between the outer sections, which passes through the inner sections without affecting or being affected by them.

 

[kwired]

I'll call it a quad, two tandems in a 2 pole, the middle two have a pin between them and the outer two have a metal tie. Do they still make them? It is a Challenger panel but I don't know what brand the quad is. The handles are red, 2 20a in the middle for an ac handler and 2 outside 20's for his well pump. His panel is really jammed and boxed in with no room (convenient) to do a sub panel.

Is the subpanel next to the first panel? If so I usually just move a couple lighter load circuits to the subpanel to make room for the feeder breaker.

 

[Sierrasparky]

We do not know whether or not there is an internal common trip mechanism in addition to the handle ties. It is all inside the common molded case.
Like you, I know that just handle ties alone do not guarantee a common trip unless the interaction of trip mechanism and handle was designed with that as a goal. It seems inconsistent with the trip free handle design and with resistance to vibration and accidental tripping, so I do suspect that there is an internal link between the outer sections, which passes through the inner sections without affecting or being affected by them.

See I thought there was a requirement for the breaker to have an internal trip. You could not just have a handle tie.
Probably a tale ffrom that source.
I could be wrong.