Qualified person?

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electricaldoc

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Qualified Person
One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training on the electrical hazards involved.

FPN: Refer to NFPA 70E-2004 Standard for Electrical safety in the work place, for electrical safety training requirements.

I just went to NEC 2005 seminar and they said due to this FPN: we must have training from 70E in order to remain qualified personal.
Do you all see it this way too?

I do not have problem with this I just would like input because I plan to try to make work pay for 70E training.
 
Re: Qualified person?

It's an FPN, 'nuff said.

I am all for 70E safety training but they are painting electricians with an awfully large brush to suggest they are unqualified without it.

How many electricians even know what 70E is?
 
Re: Qualified person?

Ok, I know I am going to get slammed on this comment.
Part of the statement says"hazards involved" Do you now the hazards involved with working with electricity? Not just shock hazards but what PPE you must wear while doing the work we do? How to go about determining the flash boundry before doing the work. What does the term "electricaly safe mean to you?
I know most of us go to work every day and sometimes forget all of this stuff, because we are busy or in a hurry or just don't know. How many of us work a live circuit because we can or because it is to inconvient to go turn it off, lock it off and then check it off.
But if the company you work for or you own the company,or just show up and get a paycheck requires this or an insurance company requires this or you have a lost time accident or worse, you and the company could be in big trouble.
You owe it to yourself and those that depend on you to get all the training you can. One of the bad things about electricity is that at times it gives us the test and then teachs the lesson.
I am sure all of us have some horror story about some one getting hurt or killed because they made a mistake. There is a lot more to NFPA70E than just more training or a peice of paper that says we attended this seminar. Get the training,learn the material be safe, work safe.
Even with all of this training accidents will happen, but if you have the knowledge to prevent and minimize these occurances you can go home at the end of the day.
What about you guys that work somewhere that requires training and teachs and furnishs PPE, do you adhere to the rules and put on the equipment every single time? What happens if you get hurt and don't have the equipment on? Who really looses? You or the company or both. What about your families, they expect dad or mom to come home after work and play ball or go to dinner or sit in the chair and read the paper.
Those of us that have a friend whose life was changed in the blink of an eye because it was to incinvient to put on a pair of gloves and a jacket or a face shield or even turn the switch off. How did that affect them?
I applogize for the ramble and maybe I am preaching to choir and maybe you guys don't have a friend who has lost his life or a co-worker who is burned so bad he can't even get out of bed any more.
Unfortunately I am not in your position to say that.
 
Re: Qualified person?

There is a definition of Qualified Person in Art 100, then there are numerous references in the NEC to Qualified Persons. There is also OSHA. I would say that covers more than just the FPN.


It is an understated part of our industry, because it costs money that contractors do not see as recoverable - of course until one of their men/women gets hurt or killed.

BTW - CAJ, nicely said!!!
 
Re: Qualified person?

I gotta agree with Jeff. There are indeed qualified persons who install electrical equipment on a regular basis who are not qualified to work on the same system after it has been energized. The basis of that statement is NFPA 70E. :D
 
Re: Qualified person?

"Qualified person" was redefined to include the safety training language in 2002 NEC. I have never heard that redefinition questioned. Since 2002 every electrical worker at the industrial site where I work has received certified electrical safe work practices training. I started my career in electrical work well over thirty years ago and the training still woke me up to a few things. I would like to think that most companies would fund training if for no other reason than potential liability and it's affect on their bottom line. We all benefit because we're more likely to leave work each day under our own power. ;)
 
Re: Qualified person?

I have to agree with Jeff also. So many of us forget these things and just do the job, and in a lot of cases such as myself I have never known this info. Lock out tag out is the most trianing our company has ever offered or required. I do not feel this is enough, but unfortunately most of my coworkers do not want to even know this, But working in an industrial environment I feel we need 70E in forced.
 
Re: Qualified person?

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Here! Here!
 
Re: Qualified person?

i deal with 120/240 volt each and every day.Do I deenrgize a circuit to trouble shoot it well no !!If it is 277/480 well yes i respect electricity.i take the precautions ensure I am not grounded watch where I place all wires,guess i am old school to me it is easier to work 120 live just my own humble opinion.OK OSHA has a different view point.I actually know a guy that will walk up to a residential panel and touch both phases and say yup 240 there.Do i advocate this NO but he does it day to day.Safety is a primary concern , but sometimes safety is not the key :D
 
Re: Qualified person?

This is bogus advice and seems to represent the caliber of your company and people working there if nothing else.
Glad you shared.
 
Re: Qualified person?

Lets jus say that Allen and me work in a town that wants production.They will never tell you work it hot ,just tell you if your too slow.Being slow might be safer and smart but your kids might get hungry.I am at a factory right now that can not be shut down.Any thing that requires a shut down must be sheduled on weekends.I spent most of my day reworking 277 lights.Kept it to a minimum of live circuits.No i did not like or want to do it this way.There is not much space between ceiling grids.Sometimes we are put in a situation that we want to say NO to but can't.
 
Re: Qualified person?

I had someone at my work repairing a grinder 480V/3PHASE/60A, and he used the disconnect to kill power check with meter and it was dead. He then went ahead and made some tests. Then turned disconnect on to check if it would work. When it did not he shut disconnect off again, but did not check power after all he had just done so. Disconnect was bent and did not kill power, but it did nearly kill him 480v from one hand to other. Two days in hospital the current path threw his body showed up on xray or MRI (something) anyway they could actually tell that it went out his back also. I checked and it turned out there was another piece of equipment behind him that he had leaned against during shock.
Also had transformer burn one time and what should have been 120v single phase wound up with 208v on one leg and 35 on other. Why such strange voltages I do not know, But had we not checked we could have done a lot of damage and/or injury. So I say safe is better than sorry. Remember the famous last words. I have done that a thousand times before and never hurt me then. :roll:
 
Re: Qualified person?

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Being slow might be safer and smart but your kids might get hungry.
Click to expand...
Jim, that's a bogus argument. A family will be a lot hungrier if one is dead and can no longer provide.

I guess the bottom line at your company is more valuable than your life. :roll: :mad:

[ February 23, 2005, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: Qualified person?

come to Florida and see how long you can hold a job by being a strictly by the books man.Osha would have field day at almost any job in Tampa bay area.Not saying its right and at any point that something looks to risky i back off.
 
Re: Qualified person?

Jim, didn't you let a helper install an exit light on a live circuit just last week?

Roger
 
Re: Qualified person?

No thanks Jim. I'll stay in an area that has decent wages, and takes licensing, codes, and safety seriously.
 
Re: Qualified person?

let,yes.Asked him to do it live NO.I do admit we could have shut the breaker off.Are you going to tell me you never wired anything hot ??
 
Re: Qualified person?

Jim, yes I have, and I have also spent weeks in Whirlpool therapy with 2nd and 3rd deg burnt hands after be blown up while working hot. I also lost most of my site for the first three days after the incident and my eyes were never the same afterwards.

I'd say I had a lot more PPE with me than you offered or made available for helper too.

Roger

[ February 23, 2005, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
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