Quality of plans

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kitchens only require 2 1500va circuits. We've seen them circuit refrigerator, and dishwasher, and microwave on one 15A circuit and second circuit kitchen counters, disposal, and range hood.
I haven't seen 1500 VA circuits since......well never in kitchen requirements. Even in 4 unit multifamily I have done. Always minimum 2 20 amp (120 x 20 = 2400 VA) kitchen circuits. I have put refrigerators on 15 amp circuits, but as a 3rd or more circuit after the two required 20 amp circuits.
 
I see lousy plans every day. In some cases, I suspect that the person who sealed the plans never even looked at the plans "they" sealed. I think it's happening more and more.
I've been handed plans that didn't make any sense. None... and it was clear the GC just had some buddy draw them up quickly and they get approval because they know the right people, grease the right wheels. Yet when I try to do my own floorplan (as a guy that hasn't greased the right wheels) and do, what I consider to be above and beyond, alarm bells start going off everywhere and people's heads start to explode, lol.

I'm a pure cynic about it now. It's all about who you know and it's all pay to play... at least in small time residential work it is. Maybe not so much for bigger commercial projects, but that's been my experience. I've seen guys turn in the equivalent of drawings on bar napkins and they get the green light. It's infuriating.
 
Last edited:
Move out of Chicago, if you don’t like the “pay to play” Oregon Needs more electrician. Just not my town lol.
We have to many druggies who won’t work, so you would dominate!!
 
I do design work here as well as drafting of both mechanical and electrical enclosures, devices, cables, diagrams, etc. Over the years, we have developed check lists for each 'type' of drawing. Once a drawing has been reviewed by the team and everyone is happy, we send it to a 'checker' or person usually not involved in the review; a 'third-party' so-to-speak. The checker bounces format and anything else off the list and approves each line on the check list. Things like page numbers, revision letters, dimensions, quantities, etc etc etc are all listed on the lists. We will not "release" or "stamp" off on any drawings without a checklist completed and stored in a repository as proof and back-up that it was performed. This will not remove every error from a print, but it will drastically reduce the number of errors and reduce re-work. The list started as something we all made ourselves and used under the radar but they became known company wide and are now part of our ISO process and get audited.

If the drafters had some simple checklist to run on their prints before they were stamped it would reduce the release of such lousy crap to those who have to work from them. A line for "is receptacle spacing show appropriately and are the distances acceptable" and maybe a "do all appliances show the appropriate power locations" blah blah blah. We have spaces on the lists for the checkers to mark 'not applicable' if there is something not on the drawings that is in the list. If any NAs are marked, we require a PE to sign off on each and every NA to make sure the checker didn't either miss something in the print, or not know what they are doing. Check check check. That's the key to good prints IMO.
 
Move out of Chicago, if you don’t like the “pay to play” Oregon Needs more electrician. Just not my town lol.
We have to many druggies who won’t work, so you would dominate!!
I'm thinking about it. Small town electrician might just be perfect for me. Get to know people, build some real relationships, and leave the hustle of the big city behind. It's cutthroat AF here and while I enjoy blasting some Metallica and rocking out on the job, I'm just not that aggressive, unless I'm backed into a corner.

I could bring some of those Chicago pipe bending skills with me. Although the pro-Romex crowd might just go all Monty Python on me if I roll into town with a pipe bender, lol.
 
Last edited:
Now I'm gonna have to stream that movie on another monitor while I work today. That's away I don't get turned into a newt. LOL
Nothing picks up your spirits like a quick Monty Python clip on YouTube. Gotta do what you gotta do to keep yourself goin.
 
I could bring some of those Chicago pipe bending skills with me.
Old timers here used to do at least one run of pipe in each new house, 3/4 to the range and a 3/4 to the water heater, but that was back before my time. I have done lots of pipe in houses for solar.
I have done three reis projects in 'all pipe' in the last 20 years, i had to cheat on all of them with MC/flex as I am not that good. I have done several others in all metallic raceway or cable as per specs. I believe one of the customers was from Chicago.

EDIT and one of those had horrible plans now that I remember LOL
 
I have done three reis projects in 'all pipe' in the last 20 years, i had to cheat on all of them with MC/flex as I am not that good.
Meh. It varies. In some instances I would call "flex" "cheating" and in some instances I wouldn't.

For example, when having an open basement and pulling new wiring up to the first floor, it's common practice to utilize FMC... it's much more cost effective than ripping everything open and running EMT.

Now if you have all open studs and you're running "flex"... I would frown upon that personally because in my experience, we would always run pipe in that scenario... but I know there are commercial projects where they run MC all day long.

I guess it's just a matter of what you've been exposed to and the area where you work. Most of my experience is with EMT and I can rock a hacksaw like a boss thanks to my training. Boss would never let me use anything but a hacksaw and now I'm pretty good with it. It will make you stronger and your eyes sharper so that when you DO eventually pick up a bandsaw, you're not cutting the pipe poorly and it seats in the fitting like it's supposed to.
 
Last edited:
King Arthur: You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?
Black Knight: Meh.
King Arthur: You make me sad.
 
I haven't seen 1500 VA circuits since......well never in kitchen requirements. Even in 4 unit multifamily I have done. Always minimum 2 20 amp (120 x 20 = 2400 VA) kitchen circuits. I have put refrigerators on 15 amp circuits, but as a 3rd or more circuit after the two required 20 amp circuits.
1500A is referring to the load used for load calcs x 2 circuits. But yeah I personally always use 20A's and typically go for 5 ish circuits in the kitchen (not inlcuding the range) Usually microwave and range hood on a circuit. dishwasher and disposal on a circuit refrigerator on a circuit and 2 kitchen counter circuits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top