Question about this scenario at fuel dispensers.

TedElectric

Member
Location
Florida
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Hello all,
I have a customer that has two above ground fuel tanks (small ones, 500 gallons each) one is gasoline and the other is off-road diesel. They are both located outdoors, about three feet apart from each other.
The gasoline tank is hand cranked, no power needed. The diesel pump came with a factory supplied 8' "whip" to be plugged into a receptacle (that is the original work order, add outlet for diesel dispenser). We don't do much with hazardous locations, so bear with me. Im thinking the diesel pump would need to be rated for class 1 conditions, which it is clearly not. Even though diesel is not considered "flammable" I believe the pump motor would need to be rated for hazardous locations since they are literally side by side. *I meant to add that the diesel pump motor in about 60" off the ground, would that get be high enough to be out of the hazardous zone?

Thanks so much for your time, any information will be greatly appreciated.
Ted F
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
What makes you think there is a classified area around the gas tank, and if there is it would extend to the diesel pump motor area.

Is there a classified area around the gas can you use to fill your lawn mower gas tank with?
 

TedElectric

Member
Location
Florida
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
What makes you think there is a classified area around the gas tank, and if there is it would extend to the diesel pump motor area.

Is there a classified area around the gas can you use to fill your lawn mower gas tank with?
Thank you for your response, appreciate it.
 

zooby

Member
Location
Indiana
Occupation
maint. electrician
What makes you think there is a classified area around the gas tank, and if there is it would extend to the diesel pump motor area.

Is there a classified area around the gas can you use to fill your lawn mower gas tank with?
". We don't do much with hazardous locations, so bear with me."
 

TedElectric

Member
Location
Florida
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
". We don't do much with hazardous locations, so bear with me."
Rough crowd, I have been nothing but respectful and thankful for any help. Looks like Mike holt forum is for the elite "all knowing" only.
Very condescending to answer one question with three or more qusetions. You should apply for Jean-Pierre's job. LOL!!
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Keep in mind that classifying an area is actually an engineering function and 500.4 calls for that design to be documented for installers & inspectors so any input here is an opinion.
The diesel would not be a hazardous location and if you place your receptacle out of the 514.3(B) area shown that should be o.k.
To me, the potential problem would be in 514.8 with the underground conduits. You can't get close enough to the pump to avoid being under the classified area so, again, in my opinion, you would need sealoffs as you exited the boundary.
There are members here fall more qualified and hopefully one will chime in.
 

rbalex

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
Rough crowd, I have been nothing but respectful and thankful for any help. Looks like Mike holt forum is for the elite "all knowing" only.
Very condescending to answer one question with three or more qusetions. You should apply for Jean-Pierre's job. LOL!!
Yes, you have been respectful.

I usually avoid responding when someone else has already posted an adequate answer because I assumed you were already familiar enough with Article 514 to determine an appropriate material and equipment installation and just needed help with classifying the location(s).

Augie47’s response in post #3 was fine unless you had an explicit follow up question. His response in post #10 also indicated some additional concerns you may have with respect to race ways installed beneath classified locations and fuel dispensing facilities.

To in addition, see Section 501.125 to determine the type of motor the pump would need. In Division 2, for all practical purposes, most three phase motors are acceptable. A single phase motor very likely would need to be explosionproof.
 

Charged

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
Occupation
Electrical Designer
Rough crowd, I have been nothing but respectful and thankful for any help. Looks like Mike holt forum is for the elite "all knowing" only.
Very condescending to answer one question with three or more qusetions. You should apply for Jean-Pierre's job. LOL!!
Don’t let it detour you from posting, the electrical knowledge flex is just something you put up with on here, similar to the diy’er smack down!
 

zooby

Member
Location
Indiana
Occupation
maint. electrician
Rough crowd, I have been nothing but respectful and thankful for any help. Looks like Mike holt forum is for the elite "all knowing" only.
Very condescending to answer one question with three or more qusetions. You should apply for Jean-Pierre's job. LOL!!
Hey Ted....my intention was to point out exactly what you stated.....NOT to come across as an ass. I apologize how that was recieved. --Doug
 
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