Question for Electrical Inspectors

[jeff48356]

When homeowners pull permits to do their own electrical work, and you go out to their houses to inspect it, what are some of the most common things that people do wrong? Examples: Running 14/2 for SABC's, using plastic boxes for ceiling fans..

Do you ever see jobs that are so messed up that you deem that the homeowner doesn't know what he's doing, revoke the permit, then insist he hire a licensed electrician?

 

[augie47]

There are so many it's difficult to pinpoint the most common but some error is applying all the SABC rules is high on the list.
Box fill and nail plates violations are common also.
There have been a few jobs where all I could tell them was "hire an electrician"

 

[infinity]

Here in NJ homeowner permits are allowed for work in your own home. You can even pull a homeowner permit and wire an entire new house. Inspectors are supposed to help you (within reason) to make sure that your work is code compliant.

Many of the problems are created by people who watch a few videos on YouTube and think that they know what they're doing. YouTube is a fairly poor resource for information on electrical work but some of the homeowners follow it to the letter creating all sorts of violations. Over filled boxes is a common one, holes near the edge of the studs, lack of staples on cables, etc.

On service upgrades MWBC'S on the same leg, no handle ties, missing MBJ, wrong size GEC to water pipe electrode, no surge protection.

Generator inlets have all sorts of problems with lack of a breaker interlock, non-listed breaker interlocks, inlets in garages, missing signs at the inlet and at the service equipment.

 

[Johnhall30]

In New Orleans a homeowner can file a building permit to contract their own renovation / new construction, but if there is any trades work (electric,hvac,plumbing,gas) then a licensed trades contractor has to file on it.

 

[kwired]

Here in NJ homeowner permits are allowed for work in your own home. You can even pull a homeowner permit and wire an entire new house. Inspectors are supposed to help you (within reason) to make sure that your work is code compliant.

Many of the problems are created by people who watch a few videos on YouTube and think that they know what they're doing. YouTube is a fairly poor resource for information on electrical work but some of the homeowners follow it to the letter creating all sorts of violations. Over filled boxes is a common one, holes near the edge of the studs, lack of staples on cables, etc.

On service upgrades MWBC'S on the same leg, no handle ties, missing MBJ, wrong size GEC to water pipe electrode, no surge protection.

Generator inlets have all sorts of problems with lack of a breaker interlock, non-listed breaker interlocks, inlets in garages, missing signs at the inlet and at the service equipment.

In NE they solved the being a how to service for HO's many years back now, and never changed the wording of the laws in doing so.

Homeowners are allowed to pull permits and make wiring installs in their "primary residence". It was worded that way to prevent owners from wiring their rental properties or vacation homes and such. Problem was inspectors were loaded down with many trying to wire their new home that they were going to move into or in some cases end up selling after they completed it. So they took a hard look at the situation and determined it is not your primary residence unless you are living in it. Now they reject all situations of HO wiring unless they are making changes to the home they actually live in.


There is still a lot that goes on with no permits but for the most part permits are not required in SF dwellings other than when a new service is being installed. Even the contractors do a lot of work with no permits in those as long as not installing a new service.

 

[ptonsparky]

Unfortunately a share of permits I filed in the last few years probably never saw an inspector. New services excluded.

 

[kwired]

Unfortunately a share of permits I filed in the last few years probably never saw an inspector. New services excluded.

Sometime in past 5 years or so inspector was wanting to clean up any old permits I still had that were not finalized. Most only went back maybe 2 years, but when he mentioned one of them I was like "that is still open?" Was like 10 years since I installed that. Funny thing is it was an irrigation service and I can look out my office window which I am able to look at right now as I write this. Need good binoculars to see any details but is the field directly across road from me.

 

[macmikeman]

When homeowners pull permits to do their own electrical work, and you go out to their houses to inspect it, what are some of the most common things that people do wrong? Examples: Running 14/2 for SABC's, using plastic boxes for ceiling fans..

Do you ever see jobs that are so messed up that you deem that the homeowner doesn't know what he's doing, revoke the permit, then insist he hire a licensed electrician?

There are plastic fan boxes with UL listings , but I don't like using them. When others do, I don't condemm, but my preference for my own work is definately metal boxes fan listed.

 

[Joe.B]

NM cable into metal boxes with no grommet (bushing). No local disconnect, such as for a water heater. Lack of fastening (staples or similar) and/or too many wires under staple. Not enough wire pulled into the box, and/or NM sleeve not pulled into the box. Lack of grounding and/or bonding. Bad splices. Missing junction boxes. Missing cover plates. Missing dead fronts. Missing blank plates (filler plates). Wrong size breaker or wire. Too many.. Not enough.. I think I'm going to puke....

 

[letgomywago]

There are plastic fan boxes with UL listings , but I don't like using them. When others do, I don't condemm, but my preference for my own work is definately metal boxes fan listed.

Arlington Peak and vaulted ceiling fan boxes are my goto in those situations. They secure the fan to proper framing but it is a plastic box.

 

[ptonsparky]

I don't know of any plastic box that the fan actually attached to.

 

[letgomywago]

I don't know of any plastic box that the fan actually attached to.

Alied makes a fiberglass one and PnS makes a true plastic one. Smartbox makes a remodel plastic with 2 or 3 lags inside the box.

 

[curt swartz]

Alied makes a fiberglass one and PnS makes a true plastic one. Smartbox makes a remodel plastic with 2 or 3 lags inside the box.

All of those have a metal bracket the fan screws attach to. The screws pass through the box into the bracket. I have not seen a box that the plastic supports the fan.

 

[letgomywago]

All of those have a metal bracket the fan screws attach to. The screws pass through the box into the bracket. I have not seen a box that the plastic supports the fan.

The bracket is riveted into the allied one the bracket never touches the screws. The same is true for the pass and Seymore one. The smart box threads into the bracket

 

[curt swartz]

The first box:

4-inch Round Ceiling Box | Ceiling Boxes | Electrical Boxes | Wiring Devices

Ceiling Fan Box, Premium Grade with integral fan mounting bracket and four Auto/Clamps. 12 pack.

www.legrand.us

Phillips-head screws (#10-32 x 3 inch) mount the fan or fixture directly to the metal bracket.

The second box seems sketchy.

9350-FANVB :Allied Moulded Products

alliedmoulded.com

The non metallic box is supporting the fan/fixture and the holes are only 8-32. I have never seen any fan box that uses 8-32 screws. Most are 10-32 and occasionally 10-24.

 

[letgomywago]

The first box:

4-inch Round Ceiling Box | Ceiling Boxes | Electrical Boxes | Wiring Devices

Ceiling Fan Box, Premium Grade with integral fan mounting bracket and four Auto/Clamps. 12 pack.

www.legrand.us

Phillips-head screws (#10-32 x 3 inch) mount the fan or fixture directly to the metal bracket.

The second box seems sketchy.

9350-FANVB :Allied Moulded Products

alliedmoulded.com

The non metallic box is supporting the fan/fixture and the holes are only 8-32. I have never seen any fan box that uses 8-32 screws. Most are 10-32 and occasionally 10-24.

I've never seen the PnS one with screws being provided so good to know. I've never used them only seen them at the supplier.

 

[jmellc]

NM cable into metal boxes with no grommet (bushing). No local disconnect, such as for a water heater. Lack of fastening (staples or similar) and/or too many wires under staple. Not enough wire pulled into the box, and/or NM sleeve not pulled into the box. Lack of grounding and/or bonding. Bad splices. Missing junction boxes. Missing cover plates. Missing dead fronts. Missing blank plates (filler plates). Wrong size breaker or wire. Too many.. Not enough.. I think I'm going to puke....

Most people not in the trade don't understand the detail we have to deal with.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

When I was a volunteer fireman there was this guy who needed me to look at the work he had done on his addition because there was no inspection in his area back then. I walked in and couldn't believe what I saw. He had taken the nm cable and ripped it open so he could pull 2 wires in one direction and the 3rd wire to another location. He argued with me so I just told him I would never sign off on something like this. I have no idea what he finally did. I suspect he just closed up the walls.

 

[ptonsparky]

We had guy ask us to check his wiring...we explained what was wrong and while electrically it would work, we did a good share of it over.

 

[kwired]

Alied makes a fiberglass one and PnS makes a true plastic one. Smartbox makes a remodel plastic with 2 or 3 lags inside the box.

I've used P&S and the Smartbox they both have metal bracket that actually supports the fan. The plastic is just the enclosure for the conductors

I use the P & S quite often, has fair amount of volume for conductors, though most cases I am only entering with a single cable.