Question for Inspectors

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77401 said:
What is wrong with that? What is a field assembled cord. I have appliance cords on the truck I install on DW's.
422.16B2
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Are you working under the 05 NEC??

Where is the receptacle located??
 
I always try to make a note at the rough in if there is a box installed for bathroom lights or not. I started checking behind those that had canopies and was horrified to find the contractors were using wire nuts to make the connections, shoving them in the wall and mounting the fixture directly to the wall with drywall augers. I had to get the word out that if it didn't stop I would require a box be installed on every piece of romex coming out of the wall at rough in.

There was also an install of rope lighting in crown mold. When I checked the connection they had stuck the conductors of the romex in the holes in the end of the rope light and taped it with electrical tape and shoved it in the crown mold channel.

I am always amazed at the dumb things that veteran contractors will try to get past an inspector.
 
cpal said:
Are you working under the 05 NEC??

Where is the receptacle located??
Click to expand...

Yes 2005 NEC
We always put a single duplex under the sink.
1/2 for the DW the other is switched for the Disp.
And I'm seeing more DW & Disp being shipped with cords already installed.

And now this brings up another thought... I thought I read, (can't remember where) about putting the plugs for free standing ranges in the adjacent cabinets next to them too!
I have one job I got called on yesterday that the plumber & I got the placement on a Huge Convection range in the wrong place & the unit won't slide back. we of course were given the wrong dimensions, of course.
If I had place the receptacle in the cabinet it would have been OK...I think...
 
mpd said:
I had a similar problem with the hollywood lights in bathrooms, no boxes, grounds cut off, wirenuts pushed back into the wall, not just one contractor I would have to say the majority of contractors, all contractors were notified if it continued to be a problem somebody from the contractor would have to be on site to remove any fixtures I requested for inspection, I have not had any problems with that lately.

check those weatherproof boxes also, failed many contractors no connectors and boxes not grounded
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found out some idiot made a 120 from splicing the 220 in a covered wall last week. drywaller removed the wall in a remodel and found it for me. really ticked me off. must have been there for 10 years or so and when i went to move it the wirenuts fell off.
 
I wish all DW's were cord wired and under the sink. That makes it accessable.
In the wall behind the DW is not accessable but allowed. I wish they did not allow direct hook up of DW but they do. Hollywood lights are allowed to have direct nm wireing without a box.
 
celtic said:
Where should it be located...behind the unit or in the next base cabinet?
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422.16 (B) does not allow any cord and connectorer other than that which is identified by the DW manufacture. Read the Code! ( I didn't write it; Well thats another story)

Read 422.16 requires receptacles which are provided for DW's (which utilize a cord identified by the manufacture ) to be located in the same space as the appliance. If you are connecting to a device in the adjacent base cabinet you are in violation of the minium standards of the NEC.
 
Here it is:

422.16(B)(2) Built-in Dishwashers and Trash Compactors. Built-in dishwashers and trash compactors shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer where all of the following conditions are met.
(1) The flexible cord shall be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
Exception: A listed dishwasher or trash compactor distinctly marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
(2) The length of the cord shall be 0.9 m to 1.2 m (3 ft to 4 ft) measured from the face of the attachment plug to the plane of the rear of the appliance.
(3) Receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
(4) The receptacle shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto.
(5) The receptacle shall be accessible.
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infinity said:
Here it is:
Click to expand...

I guess I missed the adjacent there to

But how do you justify a
purchased cord at a supply center vs "identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer "????
 
cpal said:
If you are connecting to a device in the adjacent base cabinet you are in violation of the minium standards of the NEC.
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Sorry...set you up on the trick question ;)
422.16(B)(2)(4)
 
cpal said:
But how do you justify a
purchased cord at a supply center vs "identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer "????
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Do you do any remodels in residential in the field?

Look at Home depot in the extension cord bins.
There are appliancereplacement cords, 16awg, 3 wire, 6 feet long. Never had an inspector fail it. It really is the new standard today.
 
cpal said:
But how do you justify a
purchased cord at a supply center vs "identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer "????
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Charlie I take that to mean that if the instructions say you may cord and plug connect it than you may buy a UL listed appliance cord and install it that way.

Here is a typical installation guide

Note that it provides instructions for cord and plug or direct cable wiring.

Also notice under "Materials Needed" it lists electrical cable or power cord.



I do not see this as any different than the choice to hardwire a range or buy a range cord and field install it.

Keep in mind it's been a long time since I worked residential and when I did we hardwired DWs and Disposals.
 
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celtic said:
Sorry...set you up on the trick question ;)
422.16(B)(2)(4)
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Thanks
but I was misreading the article long before this conversation.
I'm actually better off for the clarity.
 
iwire said:
Charlie I take that to mean that if the instructions say you may cord and plug connect it than you may buy a UL listed appliance cord and install it that way.

Here is a typical "

Bob
my problem has been field assembled whips innstalled at the job site and ran thru the cabinet base. also some of the instructions that I have encountered have statements such as,

"For models equipped with power cord: Do not modify the plug
provided with the appliance; if it will not fit the outlet, have a
proper outlet installed by a qualified technician."


see http://products.geappliances.com/Pr...MENT=Installation Instructions&SKU=PDW9980LSS

This begs the question(in my mind) if the mfg did not provide the cord set is it permissable to manufacture one or purchase one from another vendor.


Not that it matters but;

I got hung up on this subject because of the change in language between 1996 and 1999. I kinda stuck my foot in it where as I forgot the langugae regarding "adjacent to", I agree it is difficult to install these things without a receptacle in the adjacent base. and I agree the cord and receptacal provides a disconnect. But 400.7 (8) would only allow flexable cord if the appliance is intended or identified for such use. I see a conflict between the two articles and the inconsistancy in the manufactures instructions.

Also when this new language first appeared in the NEC ref to (96 language) the proposal statements indicated that tme mfg standard restricted the use of cords on appliances unles it was a kit identified by the manufacture.
That language did not find it's way into the NEC (so it's not enforceable unless in the installation instructions).
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Morning Charlie, hows it going?


cpal said:
Bob my problem has been field assembled whips innstalled at the job site and ran thru the cabinet base.
Click to expand...

I am not of the opinion running a cord through a cabinet base is a violation.

What section of 400.8 would you cite?

also some of the instructions that I have encountered have statements such as,

"For models equipped with power cord: Do not modify the plug
provided with the appliance; if it will not fit the outlet, have a
proper outlet installed by a qualified technician."
Click to expand...

I don't see how that manufacturers statement has any relevance to the question at hand.

It sounds more like 'Don't bend the funny round pin to the side'

This begs the question(in my mind) if the mfg did not provide the cord set is it permissable to manufacture one or purchase one from another vendor.
Click to expand...

Charlie I mean no disrespect here but IMO the answerer is yes of course you can.

No different than adding a cord to a range, dryer, etc.


But 400.7 (8) would only allow flexible cord if the appliance is intended or identified for such use.
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IMO if the instructions show how to install a cord the appliance is in fact intended for cord and plug connection.

What I have learned since coming to these forums is that a cord and plug connected DW with the outlet under the sink is a very common installation outside of our area.

At first I found it surprising but after some more thought it actually makes good sense.
 
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iwire said:
if the instructions show how to install a cord the appliance is in fact intended for cord and plug connection.

At first I found it surprising but after some more thought it actually makes good sense.
Click to expand...

I work in Residential all the time, the first few times I ran across this I too was surprised. But now I have accepted it & find it the best way for an installation.

Ya think Charlie had a hard time accepting wire nuts 50 years ago?
 
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