Question on Ethics

[mgookin]

... They won't issue two permits for the same job so just how am I to get a rough or final inspection?

.... .

I think if you check with the building department, they will issue multiple permits for the same trade at the same time. They're not permitting the same work twice; they're just issuing a permit to each contractor for the specific work done by that contractor. It does require some housekeeping in record keeping but that's what a building department (and a project) is all about.

In fact that's what's required legally. Every licensed contractor needs his own permit unless he subcontracts from someone else who already has a permit for the specific work being done. It's quite common.

You can have a new house being built where one EC does the house wiring. Another EC is under the pool permit. Another EC doing low voltage, alarms, etc. Another EC doing landscape lighting, etc. Same with commercial jobs having multiple EC's for signs, fountains, etc.

 

[kwired]

You can have a new house being built where one EC does the house wiring. Another EC is under the pool permit. Another EC doing low voltage, alarms, etc. Another EC doing landscape lighting, etc. Same with commercial jobs having multiple EC's for signs, fountains, etc.

When it comes to non dwellings it becomes even more popular to have more then one electrical professional firm doing work on a particular project. You may have one doing general light and power, one doing fire alarm, one doing communications, elevator contractors usually have their own electricians, depending on application there may be other specialty systems with their own installer, general light and power contractor may bring main power to HVAC equipment but HVAC contractor may have their own controls specialists. Get into a hospital and there are all kinds of systems that may have separate contractors involved that do some wiring related to their particlular system.

 

[petersonra]

it is not like unpermitted work is all that uncommon.

The law does not allow for a contractor to be held liable for someone else's work.

Has there ever been a single case in recorded history where that has happened?

Mountain out of a molehill. Make it clear, in writing if you think it matters, just what work the permit covers and move on.

This may be an issue for the HO, but not the EC who actually has the permit.

 

[growler]

I have a home owner who has hired an unlicensed individual to come behind me on my low voltage permit while I am still installing the electric.

They won't issue two permits for the same job so just how am I to get a rough or final inspection?

You can have a new house being built where one EC does the house wiring. Another EC is under the pool permit. Another EC doing low voltage, alarms, etc. Another EC doing landscape lighting, etc. Same with commercial jobs having multiple EC's for signs, fountains, etc.

The OP stated clearly that the other contractor was working under "his" low voltage permit.

If the OP is doing a new house and the other contractor is doing work the OP hasn't permitted then he has nothing to worry about.

I said they will not issue two permits for the same job I didn't say there couldn't be more than one electrical contractor on the project.

I could care less if another contractor wants to install a pool or security system while I'm wiring a house or business. It's not my problem and would not be covered under my permit

 

[kwired]

it is not like unpermitted work is all that uncommon.

The law does not allow for a contractor to be held liable for someone else's work.

Has there ever been a single case in recorded history where that has happened?

Mountain out of a molehill. Make it clear, in writing if you think it matters, just what work the permit covers and move on.

This may be an issue for the HO, but not the EC who actually has the permit.

But one person has a permit and the other one does not. Some time down the road the only records there are is the one permit, so guess who is assumed to have been responsible for the work done? If this were new construction project and only one permit, or in some cases only one permit is filed by owner but they maybe specify who does what work, why would anyone assume any other contractor was involved?

 

[growler]

it is not like unpermitted work is all that uncommon.

The law does not allow for a contractor to be held liable for someone else's work.

Has there ever been a single case in recorded history where that has happened?

Mountain out of a molehill. Make it clear, in writing if you think it matters, just what work the permit covers and move on.

This may be an issue for the HO, but not the EC who actually has the permit.

This is not unpermitted work. This is work being done by an unlicensed contractor under a permit obtained by a licensed contractor.

Yes the law does allow for you to be held liable. The most common thing is for someone to get their license suspended for aiding the unlicensed to do work under their permit.

The OP is not guilt of permitting for others but this could require some explaining, the authorities don't know the specifics of this situation.

 

[kwired]

This is not unpermitted work. This is work being done by an unlicensed contractor under a permit obtained by a licensed contractor.

Yes the law does allow for you to be held liable. The most common thing is for someone to get their license suspended for aiding the unlicensed to do work under their permit.

The OP is not guilt of permitting for others but this could require some explaining, the authorities don't know the specifics of this situation.

If the permit holder doesn't consent to the other party doing such work under his permit then it is unpermitted work. But if you do nothing about it you are in a way consenting to it.

 

[growler]

Not sure what to do just want to get out and get whats owed to me.
Thoughts are appreciated.
Very frustrated.

Mountain out of a molehill. Make it clear, in writing if you think it matters, just what work the permit covers and move on.

This may be an issue for the HO, but not the EC who actually has the permit.

Bob just I'm my local area I have to deal with 20-30 jurisdictions and the permitting process is different in each one of them.

In some areas they may just let the homeowner come in a pull an owner permit for the "other" work being done. In other areas they may take this more seriously and want to fine or punish the other contractor and owner.

If they want to they can shut this project down until all proper permits are issued.

As an EC you don't get to make the rules only to follow the rules and it can be a full time job just keeping yourself out of trouble when homeowners try to pull stuff like this.

Again the owner has taken a simple job and made everyone's life complicated by hireing an unlicensed contractor.

 

[growler]

If the permit holder doesn't consent to the other party doing such work under his permit then it is unpermitted work. But if you do nothing about it you are in a way consenting to it.

That's why I would walk off the job and report the situation to the authorities the minute an owner tries this sort of thing. It can turn into a real mess and I don't want to be involved.

They may let the owner pull a permit for this work and if so that's fine he can be responsible for it.

 

[mltech]

Thank you for all your replies

Thank you for all your replies

Facts:
I am the EC with all high and low voltage permits on the job, including Alarm.
I was supposed to do all of the peripheral work including all Low Voltage under my permit whether I subcontracted it out or kept it in house.
Lots of changes in the house almost doubling the amount of work.
As the project has taken well over a year it has dragged without any schedule or time line.
During this prolonged deal the home owner hired one of my employees to do remodeling of some triplex he owns.
I was never notified until there were problems. I fixed them and charged appropriately. This is part of the stealing from both the home owner and my (fired on the spot) employee. I have a clause in my contract against hiring my people.
He hired unlicensed people to do a lot of the other work (plumbing, construction) as well.
He continued to do the other units as well without permits and with unlicensed trades. All this while the main project is in limbo.
I feel the stealing part is due to the continued abuse of the system and using low ball labor that doesn't have proper insurance, et al...
I am going to meet with the Local AHJ early this week to discuss as the HO has now threatened me and is trying to make an insurance claim for mold remediation...?
All this from an Attorney/Shyster.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Are you saying he stole your employee and then complained about their work?


Don't ever retaliate against a lawyer or a Dr.
They will make it their mission to get you.

 

[kwired]

I worked on a project for an attorney that was a lot like that, you would think the guy was really strapped for funds the way he wanted things done, and the kind of workers he did hire. If electrical was easier to work around the permit and inspection process I'm sure he wouldn't have had a licensed electrician either:roll: