Question on side job

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Question on side job

Turn the range on and check voltage reading on the lighting circuit breaker. If the voltage flex heavily,check for bad connection from buss bar to breaker or replace breaker. If voltage is consistant,check neutral connection on lighting circuit. :p
 
Re: Question on side job

is it a three or four wire stove? could there be a problem with the circuit being bonded both at the stove and at the panel? or not bonded in one of those locations when it should be?

just typing out loud.
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by jbwhite:
could there be a problem with the circuit being bonded both at the stove and at the panel?
Click to expand...
That shouldn't cause the lights to flicker.

Also, check out 250.140, and 250.142(B). The frame of the range should not be bonded to the neutral conductor except in existing installations where it meets the requirements of 250.140.

Given that the range is pulled from the service and not the panel (according to how I read the original post), then the range run could very well be an old existing three-wire without ground (or two-wire w/ground, whatever).

[ November 27, 2005, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Question on side job

I forgot to mentino that I did test the voltage of the lighting circuit with the range on and off. It drops from 118 to 117. The voltage remains at 117 while the lights flickering. Due to the voltage drop, I think the problem is there are not enough amps at the service to supply both the lighting loads and the range. But I'm still open to any ideas, been doing all the reading I can to help find a solution

I also don't see why bonding the neutral to the range could cause a flickering unless there was some type of minimal voltage leaking from the system. I'm going to have the owners contact SDG&E and have them make sure everything is ok on their part.
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by beachbumjeremy:
I forgot to mentino that I did test the voltage of the lighting circuit with the range on and off. It drops from 118 to 117. The voltage remains at 117 while the lights flickering. Due to the voltage drop, I think the problem is there are not enough amps at the service to supply both the lighting loads and the range. But I'm still open to any ideas, been doing all the reading I can to help find a solution
Click to expand...
Based on these readings, I doubt the power company has a problem. 117 will not cause the lights to flicker. It sounds like we are missing a piece of information somewhere.

Oh yea, I agree with the other posters in that if you are out doing electrical work for hire, you really need to get liability insurance.
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by beachbumjeremy:
I forgot to mentino that I did test the voltage of the lighting circuit with the range on and off. It drops from 118 to 117.
Click to expand...
One volt? That's nothing, and plenty of voltage left after the fact.

Due to the voltage drop, I think the problem is there are not enough amps at the service to supply both the lighting loads and the range.
Click to expand...
That's way off base. Throw an ampclamp on that, and you'll find less than 50 amps on that service with the range and the lights on, I can virtually guarantee.

1. Do all the lights in the house flicker?
If "yes", are they all on the same circuit?
If "no", proceed to #2.

If you answered "yes" to #1, then you need to plug in a lamp to another circuit and see if you see the same effect.

2. The problem is probably not at the service. Think of the electrical system as a big pyramid, with the service at the top. If the service is bad, everything will be affected.

So you need to determine what circuits are affected, and check the connections as iwire mentioned in the second post.

You only stand to lose face if you jump to conclusions, such as blaming the utility. Do some snooping before you make recommendations such as that to the homeowner. You realize what a scheduling pain it is for the h/o to meet up with the power company? Be sure of the problem before you jump the gun.

And get someone that's good at troubleshooting from your shop involved, that'll probably save you a lot of time. Troubleshooting over the net is a long shot at best in most cases. Nothing beats an experienced set of eyes on the job.

And quit doing sidework all ready, your boss is gonna be ticked. :D
 
Re: Question on side job

In my county a permit is required any time a job exceeds $750.00 OR INVOLVES ANY ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING OR HVAC WORK. Some unlicensed contractors interperet (or twist) this to mean they don't need a license for any job under $750.00.
 
Re: Question on side job

try tightening up all the neatral connectors,
in doing so,,you better be carefull not to drop one off the buss,or you'll find out what happens,,,possibly in the court system,,
if you don't know what I'm getting at,then walk away from this one.
 
Re: Question on side job

I agreee troubleshooting through a keyboard is a
best a shot in the dark.It takes experience to get good at this aspect of the trade.
Rough ins,trims,additions,bending pipe does not make an electrician.Calculating voltage drop,load calcs etc well they make up another aspect to the trade.(using a house as in this case ) there are 100`s upon 100`s of connections throughout the home.Knowing where to start helps keep egg of your face and that knowledge comes from time scraping that gooey yoke off your face.This is a great web site for info but it can`t replace time in the field.
When I needed neurosurgery last month I went to a neurosurgeon to perfom a delicate laser surgery procerdure,not the radiologist that read the MRI.Trying to help a friend out is great,but sometimes you`re better off telling that friend it is bryond your knowledge,especially as was mentioned if you drop a neutral off the buss that`s connected to a $3,4,5000.00 plasma with all the bells and whistles.Then see if he stays a friend.As far as side work I doubt you will find anyone registered on this site that can say "side work never done that never will"Just know your limitations. ;)
 
Re: Question on side job

So we frown on DIYs but we will embrace guys stealing work from legitimate contractors?
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I can see how easy this could be misused.Rewire bathroom $499.Same house same day,wire and install ceiling in 3 bedrooms $450.Install dryer outlet $235. Could just write seperate bills and treat them as seperate jobs.Intire house could get rewired using this $500 limit.
Click to expand...
Only until you get caught. The DPOR* and local permitting authorities specifically address this attempt at getting around the requirements, and the penalties are severe.


*Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by beachbumjeremy: Does anyone know a good information website or a link on this site that will give me more information regarding arc fault?
Click to expand...
You might start here.
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by jbwhite:
i was refering to the home owners insurance, not the contractors liability insureace. in this state, since the contractor is required to have insurance, the insurance company is not required to cover work done by a contractor. or a homeowner if the work is not done correctly.
Click to expand...
I have heard this before, but I can find no citation that it is indeed the case. I suspect an urban myth.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Question on side job

Can you get the flickering on your meter?
If yes, do the 1/2 at a time until you find the lose
connection.
If no, then start checking each device connection; back stabbers, etc. New work added by friend.
Probley the hot due to the 1 volt swing, a neutral can give wild voltages.
 
Re: Question on side job

This discussion is really confusing.

First of all, we need to define terms. It's important to distinguish between flicker and momentary dimming. Flicker is erratic changes in light level, whereas dimming is momentary drop in light level and a return to normal brightness. Often flicker is used in place of dimming, and then the confusion starts.

Flicker suggests a loose connection.

Momentary dimming suggests a heavy load starting, such as a motor.

I would not be concerned about dimming. I would be extremely concerned about flicker.

[ November 28, 2005, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: Question on side job

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jbwhite:
i was refering to the home owners insurance, not the contractors liability insureace. in this state, since the contractor is required to have insurance, the insurance company is not required to cover work done by a contractor. or a homeowner if the work is not done correctly. "

No mortgage company would ever go for this.Having done many fire jobs i was amazed at some insurance companies that went as far as to pay to fix violations that even were done before the fire and not connected with the damage or cause.Your house is covered just like your car is.Even if your drunk and get in a wreck they gotta pay up.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Question on side job

Check the connection between bus bar & main breaker ,if you can. Depends on the type of panel it is, sometimes it might look tight , but really isn't
 
Re: Question on side job

Originally posted by peter d: This discussion is really confusing. First of all, we need to define terms.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I am glad to see that I am not the only one who likes to bring the discussion back to a common understanding of the terms being used. :)
 
Re: Question on side job

Haven't heard back from him to see what he wants to do with lights. When/if I take care of it, I'll post the results
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top