Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

[doiturselfer]

What I really want to do is hard to describe, but I do have a very nice 3D model (JPG format) of it that I could email if my description is as confusing as I anticipate it to be. If anyone has advice, but wants to see it to be more clear, just let me know.

I am finishing my basement and my electrician put my main panel directly in front of my stairs in my basement. It's not a good first impression if left alone.

What I want to do is, build a wall in front of the panel that is about 18" out (b/c that lines up w/ some cabinets I'm installing). I'd like to leave an open hole in that wall, which could be left open for inspection, but in all actuality I'd hang a picture or mirror over.

I think this violates the "3 ft clearance rule".
Assuming that's true, I'm trying to think of a "work around", which I think I have, but want to run it by some experts.

I also want to put a direct vent gas fireplace very near the panel under discussion - so close that part of the fireplace box would be under the panel, but the venting would be to the side of the panel on the opposite side of a wall that separates the panel from the venting. I'm wondering if there any rules on how close a fireplace or the venting for it can be to the meter and panel? My vent would come out over 5' from the meter. The box would be partially under the panel, but entirely separated by walls (horizontal "wall" over fireplace and vertical wall between panel and vent).

So the questions I have.

1) The wall with the opening idea. I'm almost positive that's a violation. True?

2) If I was to have an electrician install a new panel in a less critical area, can I reroute the wiring entering my home to connect first to the proposed new panel THEN to the one that is currently my main panel to turn it into a subpanel? And if so, am I allowed to "hide" a subpanel without the same accessibility clearance requirements? I think this is ok, but need to hear it from an expert.

3) Any potential code violations on the fireplace proximity to the meter/panel/wiring?

Thanks.

Mark

 

[tom baker]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

What kind of engineer are you?
This is for you home, and you are hiring an electrican to do this?
We don't allow DIY'r posts, I'm trying to see where this fits in...

 

[wyatt]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

Talk to your electrician. He/she can answer your question We are not bad people trying to stick it to you. Most of us want the work to be right and want you to be happy with the work.

 

[infinity]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

What I want to do is, build a wall in front of the panel that is about 18" out (b/c that lines up w/ some cabinets I'm installing). I'd like to leave an open hole in that wall, which could be left open for inspection, but in all actuality I'd hang a picture or mirror over.

An opening would be a violation. The working space required has a minimum width of 30". You would need a door with 30" of clearance width or more. This would require a standard door 32" wide since the stop molding wouldn't give you the required 30" with a 30" door. The panel need a working space at least 6'6" high. A standard door is 6'8".

I also want to put a direct vent gas fireplace very near the panel under discussion - so close that part of the fireplace box would be under the panel

This wold be another violation if it entered to the required 30" wide by 6'6" high working space in front of the panel.

And if so, am I allowed to "hide" a subpanel without the same accessibility clearance requirements? I

No, the space is required whether or it a sub-panel or the service.

 

[doiturselfer]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

Thanks Infinity.

To other guys - sorry - didn't realzize the no DIY rule. Hope it didn't offend.

Mark

 

[infinity]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

Originally posted by doiturselfer:
Thanks Infinity.

To other guys - sorry - didn't realzize the no DIY rule. Hope it didn't offend.

Mark

Since you said "I am finishing my basement and my electrician", I chose to help you out. This is within the forum rules. So you're welcome.

[ February 25, 2006, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]

 

[celtic]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

I've finished a few basements in my days...one thing that irritates me to no end is the HO/GC's refusal to relocate anything mechanical - they would rather "build" some awful looking means of concealing the offending apparatus than just relocate it.

For a time I lived in a t'house development where everyone was finishing off the walk-out basements. In one particular home, the GC boxed out just about everything - the central vac, the laundry, support columns, etc...you get the picture.
In my t'house, I relocated everything - except the coloumns...I incorporated these into corners - you would never even know they were there. When it was all said and done you would never even know it was a basement - as told to me by an architect.

Point is:
If you can't stand looking at an item in a bare bones setting, think how much you'll hate the "remedy" of "box outs" all over the place...and then trying to fit furniture in, but still allow access. Spend a few extra bucks and get a finished product that does not look "spontaneous".

[ February 25, 2006, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]

 

[doiturselfer]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

I agree Celtic. Good advice. My original plan would look great and not spontaneous.

Since there appears to be no way to do what I want that meets code, I'm leaning toward your plan of sucking it up and just having it moved.

It's actually two panels with what I would guess, without actually going downstairs to count, 35 circuits or so.

Any guess how long it would take an electrician to move them?

Any recommendations on how all of the wires should be spliced to be moved? I'm sure the electrician will know how, but if there are multiple methods, any advice would be appreciated.

Since I'm still posting here and people seem somewhat interested in my plight - If anyone shares Tom's concerns, my DIY skills involve framing and finished carpentry. I'm a mechanical/automotive engineer, and readily admit I have no deep knowledge of electrical systems beyond basic circuits. I'm planning now and preparing to frame, but thinking ahead so I don't frame my way into trouble.

Thanks again guys.

Mark

 

[celtic]

Re: Questions on panel location and "hiding" panel

Originally posted by doiturselfer:

Since there appears to be no way to do what I want that meets code, I'm leaning toward your plan of sucking it up and just having it moved.

You're looking at it the wrong way - negatively. Think of it as a vast improvement vs. a wrench in the gears. Yeah it sounds very "zen", but if you look at things in the right way - you'll actually WANT to do it.
I know the cost will be a factor, but your house seems fairly large and I'm sure you won't be happy with an eyesore screwing up the view to save a few dollars

Originally posted by doiturselfer:

It's actually two panels with what I would guess, without actually going downstairs to count, 35 circuits or so.
Any guess how long it would take an electrician to move them?

Too many factors are involved sight unseen. I would venture to say between 16 and 32 manhours.

Originally posted by doiturselfer:

Any recommendations on how all of the wires should be spliced to be moved? I'm sure the electrician will know how, but if there are multiple methods, any advice would be appreciated.

There lots of ways.
In my own home (not the t'house...a fix and flipper), I opted to use multiple pipes to a common junction box. My "plans" include redoing the kitchen (more circuits), landscape lighting (more circuits), renov. the 2nd flr (more circuits), finish the basement (more circuits). Instead of having to constantly open my panel and dealing with adding wires, and then more wire, and then more wire...I landed wires on every breaker, then ran them in the pipes to the junction box. Now to add a circuit (or 10) I just hit that box with my wire.
This way would cost the average HO a few bucks...but for me, I used all scrap/extra materials and did it in my "spare time" LOL....and it's still not 100%.

This is the old panel and meter location, the mess above is the commom JB:

This is the new panel sans meter (relocated outside)...the pipes go up and turn 90 degrees to the right into the box:

These pictures are 2 years old. It does look different/better/completed now, LOL


Your electrician may opt to just add a few smaller boxes in the ceiling (provided it's dropped panel style) and match wire-to-wire over to the relocate panel.

Where your service enters the panel will be the most complicated....extending the wire or redoing it from the meter. For me, I redo from the meter - which, in this case, has been relocated outside.

[ February 25, 2006, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]