Questonable voltage in receptacle
- Thread starter David Fernandes
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
An illegal neutral to ground bond will result in a reading of zero volts between the neutral and ground, not the 50 volts that the OP has. This is either an open neutral or an ungrounded system.
DJFNEC2005
Member
- Location
- NJ
"120v from hot to nut. 70v from hot to ground. 50v from nut to ground."
If these are the readings.. possibly there is voltage being applied to the equipment ground somewhere. Let me explain my thinking...
120v from hot to neutral = normal.
70v from hot to equipment ground = 50v on the equipment ground.
50v from neutral to ground = 50v on the equipment ground.
If it were a jumped neutral to the ground terminal of the device there would be no potential voltage difference between the neutral and equipment ground and that reading would be 0 volts. Maybe check for a screw through the cable or faulty ground on equipment plugged in on the circuit or something that is causing voltage to be applied to the equipment ground.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
If these are the readings.. possibly there is voltage being applied to the equipment ground somewhere. Let me explain my thinking...
120v from hot to neutral = normal.
70v from hot to equipment ground = 50v on the equipment ground.
50v from neutral to ground = 50v on the equipment ground.
If it were a jumped neutral to the ground terminal of the device there would be no potential voltage difference between the neutral and equipment ground and that reading would be 0 volts. Maybe check for a screw through the cable or faulty ground on equipment plugged in on the circuit or something that is causing voltage to be applied to the equipment ground.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
Tieing the neutral and ground together at a device to make it appear it's grounded when using a plug-in tester.
A friend of mine's son was electrocuted because somebody did that but had the wires reversed. So the ground was hot.
He plugged in two guitars to two different amplifiers into two different receptacles. The strings on one guitar were grounded and the strings on the other were hot. He grabbed both guitars by their necks and immediately his grip tightened on the necks of each guitars as he was electrocuted. He fell to the ground and by the grace of whatever being you worship he accidentally ended up kicking one of the plugs out of the wall to de-energize one of the guitars.
I took apart the receptacles and it looked like you couldn't identify which wire was the hot and there was no ground. So the hot went to both the neutral terminal and the ground terminal, while the neutral went to the hot terminal. The kid was lucky.
Not always, if the bootleg is on a multi wire circuit, and an open occures, then all bets are off, some of the handy work out there is unreal.
Not to minimize the danger and the harm inflicted, but electrocution, by definition, means 'death by electricity'. Shocked is the proper term.
fisherelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Va
I had one the other day where the equip ground wasn't very good. It originally read 120v to hot , but when the metal box got energized by a terminal screw touching it the equipment ground became energized and wouldn't trip the breaker. The customer was getting shocked off equipment he had plugged in. When I fixed the touching screw the receptacle read fine with a bug eye (plug tester). I found a loose joint in the ground wire in the previous receptacle in the circuit.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Check the voltage readings with load vs no load this will give you better idea of open neutral or ground issues and phantom voltage issues sounds most likely there is no ground and you are reading capacitive coupling (phantom voltage) on the equipment ground.
Yup, bootlegs with loose or opens can produce some crazy readings, 40 plus years of checking and repairing hack work, let's you see the dark side of electrical work.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
so i take it we work in the light side of electrical work? :smile:
Not all work, is DIY or Hack work, we usually hear about the bad job, but there are plenty of good craftsman out there, that take pride in their work, a walk on the sunnyside of the trade.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
i seen and repaired quite a bit of hack work. i actually enjoy doing that. nothing i love more is finding horrible code violations. i get a little excited when i find something dangerous. gives me something to talk about
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
what is a nut.? Oh you mean neutral....
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
i done a job latley and the lady wanted me to make all the 2 wire receptacles grounded. there were already grounded receptacles inplace in a few areas, i opened up the boxes and every single box had a bootleg ground in it. so i had to rewire all the receptacles in the house with new romex.
was it common back in the 50's or 60s whatever it was to make bootleg grounds? the romex was black cloth covered with rubber insulation.
was it common back in the 50's or 60s whatever it was to make bootleg grounds? the romex was black cloth covered with rubber insulation.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
Yeah but if it was an open neutral somewhere then he wouldn't be able to read 120volts from hot to neutral I don't think.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
yes but EVERYONE knows you don't need a ground for a GFCI so why would someone do this at a GFCI?
To make a 3-light tester make you think it's grounded properly.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
i had a problem where i had 120v L to N and 60v H to G turns out there was a loose EGC in the junction box. he should start checking connections first obviously
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
In your post is there any difference between L and H? I think you are referring to the same wire here, so KIS please. This stuff is confusing enough to me already. I don't need any added chaos.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
In your post is there any difference between L and H? I think you are referring to the same wire here, so KIS please. This stuff is confusing enough to me already. I don't need any added chaos.
i ment hot to neutral and hot to ground. i just put an H instead of an L sorry for confusion. itwas 120 volts hot to neutral and 60 hot to ground. i dont remember if i had anything neutral to ground.
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