Racking in medium voltage breakers. Who should do it?
- Thread starter Sarge7
- Start date
- Status
eric stromberg
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
Racking in.
The breaker in this case is oftentimes a large unit that has wheels on it and rolls on the floor. It slides into a cubicle. The bus connections and the load side connections are behind movable doors. The breaker is rolled into place and when it is ready to be connected to the bus and load side stabs, the breaker is "racked in." This is usually done with a handle that looks like a scissors jack handle. As the handle is turned, threads engage and guide the assembly. As the breaker is engaging, the covers open up and the connections are made to the bus and the load side stabs.
So "racking in" connects the breaker to the line and load side. Opening and closing the breaker is a different operation. Many times, it is done at a remote control panel.
"Racking out" is done for positive separation of the bus and the downstream circuit. Before working on the load side, the breaker is racked out to prevent any possibility of energizing the circuit.
Eric
The breaker in this case is oftentimes a large unit that has wheels on it and rolls on the floor. It slides into a cubicle. The bus connections and the load side connections are behind movable doors. The breaker is rolled into place and when it is ready to be connected to the bus and load side stabs, the breaker is "racked in." This is usually done with a handle that looks like a scissors jack handle. As the handle is turned, threads engage and guide the assembly. As the breaker is engaging, the covers open up and the connections are made to the bus and the load side stabs.
So "racking in" connects the breaker to the line and load side. Opening and closing the breaker is a different operation. Many times, it is done at a remote control panel.
"Racking out" is done for positive separation of the bus and the downstream circuit. Before working on the load side, the breaker is racked out to prevent any possibility of energizing the circuit.
Eric
busman
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Occupation
- Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Eric,
Thanks for the explanation. As a mostly residential guy, this is all new to me.
Mark
Thanks for the explanation. As a mostly residential guy, this is all new to me.
Mark
busman said:
Here are some pictures :
To give you some idea of size, it would be about the size of a 15/17" computer monitor (CRT)...and weigh a lot more !
This one is from Square D.
This one is a little larger....you can see where the line/load connections are on the back (right) of the picture....and the wheels on the bottom to assit in moving the breaker back into position.
Many times, the gear will have a trolley system riding on rails directly connected to the top of the cubes. This trolley has a little winch assembly on it. Almost like a totally manual crane. This setup facilitates complete removal of the CB from the enclosure - the CB can easily weigh a 100# and are not balanced - very ungainly to try and man-handle back into/out of position w/o damaging either the equipment or yourself (toes).
You'll see the trolley (partially) on the top right of the gear.
Here is a picture of a remote racking device:
Remotely racking the equipment takes the person out of harm's way (up to 30' away).
This one is a medium voltage unit. It is probably about 3 - 4' high and about as wide - easily weighs in at a few hundred pounds.
Here are a few pictures of some more modern equipment:
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
ramsy
Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Don, you have a gift for understatement; OSHA's last word on racking MV breakers. Nice find.don_resqcapt19 said:
Sarge Look at this
Sarge Look at this
Don,
I already located that and have printed it. I have not used it yet as I am waiting for a reply from my letter to my company. I still have it as additional information. Thanks for looking for me.
Yesterday, I volunteered to grill hamburgers and hot dogs for 6 long hours for the Childrens Miracle Network Bass Tournament by the house. My union was successful in getting the companies it represents to help sponsor the tournament and the union met the companies donations. My local represents four different bargaining groups. Three of the four each put up 1000 dollars.
The plant manager for two of the companies were introduces to me yesterday. I don't work for those two companies. When they heard my nickname "Sarge", one commented about my letter to my company. He stated that it was well written and I managed to turns some heads. His company does not allow its operators to perform any task on medium voltage equipment.
This company shares facilities within my plant. So management talks back and forth. I do believe that they are looking in to my letter but don't plan on changing their mind. The other plant manager asked what the letter was about and he told him. He agreed with me that it is not safe and should be done by electricians. The second plant manager is a sister site of the one that shares facilaties with my company and is located 35 miles up river from us.
Now if they could convince my upper management before someone gets hurt or killed.
Sarge Look at this
Don,
I already located that and have printed it. I have not used it yet as I am waiting for a reply from my letter to my company. I still have it as additional information. Thanks for looking for me.
Yesterday, I volunteered to grill hamburgers and hot dogs for 6 long hours for the Childrens Miracle Network Bass Tournament by the house. My union was successful in getting the companies it represents to help sponsor the tournament and the union met the companies donations. My local represents four different bargaining groups. Three of the four each put up 1000 dollars.
The plant manager for two of the companies were introduces to me yesterday. I don't work for those two companies. When they heard my nickname "Sarge", one commented about my letter to my company. He stated that it was well written and I managed to turns some heads. His company does not allow its operators to perform any task on medium voltage equipment.
This company shares facilities within my plant. So management talks back and forth. I do believe that they are looking in to my letter but don't plan on changing their mind. The other plant manager asked what the letter was about and he told him. He agreed with me that it is not safe and should be done by electricians. The second plant manager is a sister site of the one that shares facilaties with my company and is located 35 miles up river from us.
Now if they could convince my upper management before someone gets hurt or killed.
Pictures
Pictures
The pictures were nice but unfortunately we have very few medium voltage equipment in my plant that looks like that. I just wish our equipment would be that new.
the location I work at was built in the 1920's. Some of the equipment on the plant is at least 60 years old. Most average 40 years old. They do not spend money upgrading the electrical equipment until they have to.
We had a fire in one of the substations about year ago. When it was finally extinguished, they did not replace the damaged gear. They simply rerouted all the wiring to electrical panel to another undamaged panel in the same substation. Many of our substations have extra 480, 600 and 2400 breakers. They will not spend money to replace only relocate wiring.
The other day we had a power dip from the utility company. A UPS failed to keep a key environmental piece of equipment running. This resulted in H2S gas going to the flare. Big problem is the elvated flare was out of service for repairs and all gases were routed to a ground flare. The flare cannot burn H2S gas at the rate it was being fed. This could have caused serious injury or death.
They fix the problem by not repairing the UPS by by relocating the wiring to another UPS 10 blocks away. Their other solution was to write a letter to the operators telling them they did not react fast enough to stop H2S gas resulting in a 30 minute delay in stopping the gas.
What they failed to realize is the 6 board operators were going crazy trying to regain control of the unit and the three outside guys were running around in the rain trying to get equipment back up and running. They don't realize the operators were running all over the unit blocking valves and restarting compressors, pumps and mixers to prevent mnore flaring.
It is easy for management to second guess what happens in the field but they are not around when things happen.
Pictures
The pictures were nice but unfortunately we have very few medium voltage equipment in my plant that looks like that. I just wish our equipment would be that new.
the location I work at was built in the 1920's. Some of the equipment on the plant is at least 60 years old. Most average 40 years old. They do not spend money upgrading the electrical equipment until they have to.
We had a fire in one of the substations about year ago. When it was finally extinguished, they did not replace the damaged gear. They simply rerouted all the wiring to electrical panel to another undamaged panel in the same substation. Many of our substations have extra 480, 600 and 2400 breakers. They will not spend money to replace only relocate wiring.
The other day we had a power dip from the utility company. A UPS failed to keep a key environmental piece of equipment running. This resulted in H2S gas going to the flare. Big problem is the elvated flare was out of service for repairs and all gases were routed to a ground flare. The flare cannot burn H2S gas at the rate it was being fed. This could have caused serious injury or death.
They fix the problem by not repairing the UPS by by relocating the wiring to another UPS 10 blocks away. Their other solution was to write a letter to the operators telling them they did not react fast enough to stop H2S gas resulting in a 30 minute delay in stopping the gas.
What they failed to realize is the 6 board operators were going crazy trying to regain control of the unit and the three outside guys were running around in the rain trying to get equipment back up and running. They don't realize the operators were running all over the unit blocking valves and restarting compressors, pumps and mixers to prevent mnore flaring.
It is easy for management to second guess what happens in the field but they are not around when things happen.
busman
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Occupation
- Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Celtic,
Thanks for the photos. That gives me some perspective. It's a whole nother world out there. I think I'll stick to homes and small businesses.
Thanks again,
Mark
Thanks for the photos. That gives me some perspective. It's a whole nother world out there. I think I'll stick to homes and small businesses.
Thanks again,
Mark
Sarge
I felt really bad about that one, I hate management with that kind of attitude,
an old thing blows up -uve done a lousy job of maintenance,
make it working again by salvaging available parts or using transfering to other working line- ur destroying the plant or disrupting production.
bought used equip but cant make run coz its really messed up -ur incompetent
finally got it running -uve cost the company too much money.
Do I have to stay and put up with this kind of treatment - of course not
that why I quit maintaining plants early in my career. and switch to construction, even though it has no tenure, at least most of d things are brand new, if there was a BS management, it will be for one time only.
I felt really bad about that one, I hate management with that kind of attitude,
an old thing blows up -uve done a lousy job of maintenance,
make it working again by salvaging available parts or using transfering to other working line- ur destroying the plant or disrupting production.
bought used equip but cant make run coz its really messed up -ur incompetent
finally got it running -uve cost the company too much money.
Do I have to stay and put up with this kind of treatment - of course not
that why I quit maintaining plants early in my career. and switch to construction, even though it has no tenure, at least most of d things are brand new, if there was a BS management, it will be for one time only.
update response from the company
update response from the company
I received a letter from the company today stating they plan to continue having operators complete the task. This was the exact response I expected. They side step many of my questions and gave half ass answers. I have spoken with the executive board of the union and it looks like it is going to go to an arbitrator.
They stated they do not put a value on injuring someones life or putting someones life in danger but that stated in company notes they only reason they are going to this is to save money on call outs by electricians.
I was attacked personally in the letter by the HR personnel that wrote the response for the company on why I wrote the original letter of objection. The plant manager sent a letter of apology for the behavior of her employee.
This matter is not over and will keep y'all informed.
update response from the company
I received a letter from the company today stating they plan to continue having operators complete the task. This was the exact response I expected. They side step many of my questions and gave half ass answers. I have spoken with the executive board of the union and it looks like it is going to go to an arbitrator.
They stated they do not put a value on injuring someones life or putting someones life in danger but that stated in company notes they only reason they are going to this is to save money on call outs by electricians.
I was attacked personally in the letter by the HR personnel that wrote the response for the company on why I wrote the original letter of objection. The plant manager sent a letter of apology for the behavior of her employee.
This matter is not over and will keep y'all informed.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
i am considering the age of this equipment, and my own experience in working and repairing medium and high voltage switches, that only properly qualified people should be designated to rack -in and out these switches. not just electricians --"properly qualified people". this person needs to understand allot more than which way to turn the "rack crank"! just as important ---------- this person must be properly trained and FEEL CONFIDENT in what he is doing!
an example: after hours -- 4000 amp main breaker trips feeding the lighting in a 40 story office building! there are no building engineers on duty at the time --- the building manager finds the breaker "tripped" and reads the instructions "to reset turn clockwise--" and thats as far as he reads! the rest of the instructions explained "to only turn 90 degrees" and "return to the upright position" and "continue this operation until the breaker closes". the manager begins turning the handle and reaches the stop at 90 degrees and the breaker is not closed -- he figures he needs to apply more force on the handle -- and he does -- and it still didn't close -- now, remember he's the manager and his tenants are in the dark --- he gives it all he's got -------snap!---------- he's standing there with the handle in his hand. broke the operating shaft off back inside the switchgear!!!!
i have seen this happen three times, why, "unqualified people"..........
now this is a function that requires zero exposure to possible exposed electrical surfaces.
the training "needed" for the racking in and out switches on medium and high voltage equipment is understanding what to do when THE UNEXPECTED occurs! "most" switchgear is interlocked to prevent racking the switch out without it being in the "opened" position.
an example: two men (that have never racked out a breaker- only watched others) are sent to rack out a breaker feeding a large chiller which required maintainance. their boss doesn't consider there would be a problem since the chiller is already shutdown --if they have a problem they will come back........... there are five chillers -- and they get the chiller numbers mixed up and start opening a chiller that is operating ---- at 1200 amps/480 volts. the interlock rod on the switchgear was misaligned and allowed them to begin racking this energized breaker out under load! neither man had electrical backgrounds, they mechanical guys who were then going to work on the chiller. they knew they had a problem from the noise of the arc --- and stopped racking it out. at this point -- they were panic stricken! they knew they made a mistake! smoke was beginning to come from under the switchboard. they decided to rack the breaker under load back in!! the guy who was originally turning the cranking handle was too shook up to do anything, so the second man stepped up and started turning the crank--------IN THE WRONG DIRECTION !!!!
neither man was seriously injured! it burnt a hole in the back of the switchgear four foot around and placed the chiller out of commision for a month!
it's when the unexpected happens ---- many electricians ---- may not make the correct move or action, but they have a better understanding of the consequences of their actions. this cannot be taught in a classroom overnight!
an example: a "recently overhauled" high voltage (4160 volt) starter was being racked out for the first time. again, the men were mechanical trained and were performing maintainance and inspections on a chiller that the switch controlled. they tripped the switch and it went to the "off" position. as they started to rack the switch out -- a metal bracket swung down from the upper section. both men thought this was wrong -- but didn't say anything to the other -- thinking it would suggest they didn't know what they were doing to the other!!!! they started continuing the rack-out when the bracket came loose and slid into the line side of the gear. both men were burnt -- but luckily lived. the bracket was a support for transporting the gear when it was "overhauled". it was never removed when the gear was re-installed and was only held in place by the fresh paint on the cover plates. perhaps if they considered the results of a twelve inch metal bracket -- loose --- inside a 4160 volt switchgear --------- they would have stopped when it first dropped????
you may be in a serious pi$$ing contest here --"who's incharge?" type thing and management people don't like egg on their face. and my own professional opinion for everyone concerned:
the company
the management
the operators
the electricians
only people(not necessarily electricians) who know the consequences of their actions, and who are trained in the operation including the interlocks and have the ability to check these interlocks to confirm the have fuctioned should be allowed to rack in or out medium or high voltage switches. these people should be confident in this operation prior to attempting it!!!
i have worked in buildings as a contractor -- where management asked their employees to perform tasks beyond their men's ability. some of these tasks i would not do myself nor would i ask my employees to perform. i have gone to their superiors and explained the possible problems that could arise --- most of the time they agreed and changed their policy. one particular engineer refused --"i've done it that way for years and thats the way i want it!". i made an agreement with him --- i would perform this dangerous task he was asking his men to do for "free" ---- because i had a better chance understanding the unexpected ----
an example: change out elevator feeder circuit breakers on an energized distribution panel --- 800amp--480 volt feeder. consider what would happen if the new 250 amp three pole breaker was bad from the factory. and the man didn't consider it --- and never checked the line side "clear" before sliding in place onto an energized bus???? they called me three times --- and i never charged them ---- they then changed their policy and changed them in the early morning hours on a dead bus as i did!!!
everyone should step back -- forget who's gonna win -- use common sense -- consider the costs of the damage caused by an error --- and consider standing before this man's family---------at the funeral........
an example: after hours -- 4000 amp main breaker trips feeding the lighting in a 40 story office building! there are no building engineers on duty at the time --- the building manager finds the breaker "tripped" and reads the instructions "to reset turn clockwise--" and thats as far as he reads! the rest of the instructions explained "to only turn 90 degrees" and "return to the upright position" and "continue this operation until the breaker closes". the manager begins turning the handle and reaches the stop at 90 degrees and the breaker is not closed -- he figures he needs to apply more force on the handle -- and he does -- and it still didn't close -- now, remember he's the manager and his tenants are in the dark --- he gives it all he's got -------snap!---------- he's standing there with the handle in his hand. broke the operating shaft off back inside the switchgear!!!!
i have seen this happen three times, why, "unqualified people"..........
now this is a function that requires zero exposure to possible exposed electrical surfaces.
the training "needed" for the racking in and out switches on medium and high voltage equipment is understanding what to do when THE UNEXPECTED occurs! "most" switchgear is interlocked to prevent racking the switch out without it being in the "opened" position.
an example: two men (that have never racked out a breaker- only watched others) are sent to rack out a breaker feeding a large chiller which required maintainance. their boss doesn't consider there would be a problem since the chiller is already shutdown --if they have a problem they will come back........... there are five chillers -- and they get the chiller numbers mixed up and start opening a chiller that is operating ---- at 1200 amps/480 volts. the interlock rod on the switchgear was misaligned and allowed them to begin racking this energized breaker out under load! neither man had electrical backgrounds, they mechanical guys who were then going to work on the chiller. they knew they had a problem from the noise of the arc --- and stopped racking it out. at this point -- they were panic stricken! they knew they made a mistake! smoke was beginning to come from under the switchboard. they decided to rack the breaker under load back in!! the guy who was originally turning the cranking handle was too shook up to do anything, so the second man stepped up and started turning the crank--------IN THE WRONG DIRECTION !!!!
neither man was seriously injured! it burnt a hole in the back of the switchgear four foot around and placed the chiller out of commision for a month!
it's when the unexpected happens ---- many electricians ---- may not make the correct move or action, but they have a better understanding of the consequences of their actions. this cannot be taught in a classroom overnight!
an example: a "recently overhauled" high voltage (4160 volt) starter was being racked out for the first time. again, the men were mechanical trained and were performing maintainance and inspections on a chiller that the switch controlled. they tripped the switch and it went to the "off" position. as they started to rack the switch out -- a metal bracket swung down from the upper section. both men thought this was wrong -- but didn't say anything to the other -- thinking it would suggest they didn't know what they were doing to the other!!!! they started continuing the rack-out when the bracket came loose and slid into the line side of the gear. both men were burnt -- but luckily lived. the bracket was a support for transporting the gear when it was "overhauled". it was never removed when the gear was re-installed and was only held in place by the fresh paint on the cover plates. perhaps if they considered the results of a twelve inch metal bracket -- loose --- inside a 4160 volt switchgear --------- they would have stopped when it first dropped????
you may be in a serious pi$$ing contest here --"who's incharge?" type thing and management people don't like egg on their face. and my own professional opinion for everyone concerned:
the company
the management
the operators
the electricians
only people(not necessarily electricians) who know the consequences of their actions, and who are trained in the operation including the interlocks and have the ability to check these interlocks to confirm the have fuctioned should be allowed to rack in or out medium or high voltage switches. these people should be confident in this operation prior to attempting it!!!
i have worked in buildings as a contractor -- where management asked their employees to perform tasks beyond their men's ability. some of these tasks i would not do myself nor would i ask my employees to perform. i have gone to their superiors and explained the possible problems that could arise --- most of the time they agreed and changed their policy. one particular engineer refused --"i've done it that way for years and thats the way i want it!". i made an agreement with him --- i would perform this dangerous task he was asking his men to do for "free" ---- because i had a better chance understanding the unexpected ----
an example: change out elevator feeder circuit breakers on an energized distribution panel --- 800amp--480 volt feeder. consider what would happen if the new 250 amp three pole breaker was bad from the factory. and the man didn't consider it --- and never checked the line side "clear" before sliding in place onto an energized bus???? they called me three times --- and i never charged them ---- they then changed their policy and changed them in the early morning hours on a dead bus as i did!!!
everyone should step back -- forget who's gonna win -- use common sense -- consider the costs of the damage caused by an error --- and consider standing before this man's family---------at the funeral........
Monday was an interesting day
Monday was an interesting day
After getting a negative response from the company on my request and being insulted by one of the HR folks last Thursday, a few things have happened. First the local leadership for our union read the response and immediately attacked the company for the insult on me in the response. The plant manager, responded we an apology for the insult and thats when it got interesting.
The issue was dead when the response came back Thursday. On Monday, the unit manager came to apologizes for the insult issued to me as he is the one that sent me the response written by someone else. I stated that I accept his but it still means nothing unless the person that wrote it apologizes. He also started questioning what I planned on doing next. I did not give him an answer but when he left he went to talk with the electricians. He returned to state he now feels as I do and that should be done by our electricians. He will bring the issue back up.
Monday afternoon, the HR person came and visited me on my job. I made sure I hade witnesses to listen to his apology and comments. He would not give a full apology but on a half ass one but I do told him that was no apology. He also stated that the issue is not back on the table for local leadership to relook at the issue.
To help reenforce my position, it just so happened since my letter of objection that we had a three near misses on E2 starters. One had a arc chute that fell out of position, the other the amp gauge was bad, and the other the start switch was found to be stuck in the on position. All three were caught by electricians prior to installing the medium voltage E2 starters.
So we will see how this ends up when the final decision is made.
Monday was an interesting day
After getting a negative response from the company on my request and being insulted by one of the HR folks last Thursday, a few things have happened. First the local leadership for our union read the response and immediately attacked the company for the insult on me in the response. The plant manager, responded we an apology for the insult and thats when it got interesting.
The issue was dead when the response came back Thursday. On Monday, the unit manager came to apologizes for the insult issued to me as he is the one that sent me the response written by someone else. I stated that I accept his but it still means nothing unless the person that wrote it apologizes. He also started questioning what I planned on doing next. I did not give him an answer but when he left he went to talk with the electricians. He returned to state he now feels as I do and that should be done by our electricians. He will bring the issue back up.
Monday afternoon, the HR person came and visited me on my job. I made sure I hade witnesses to listen to his apology and comments. He would not give a full apology but on a half ass one but I do told him that was no apology. He also stated that the issue is not back on the table for local leadership to relook at the issue.
To help reenforce my position, it just so happened since my letter of objection that we had a three near misses on E2 starters. One had a arc chute that fell out of position, the other the amp gauge was bad, and the other the start switch was found to be stuck in the on position. All three were caught by electricians prior to installing the medium voltage E2 starters.
So we will see how this ends up when the final decision is made.
eric stromberg
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
Sarge,
Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.
Recently, we were getting ready to rack in a 1200 Amp breaker and one of the technicians looked at the breaker stabs. One looked a little funny and so he looked at it closer. It turned out that there was a leaf spring on one of the contacts that had a crack in it. We made some phone calls and found a replacement leaf spring.
I'm looking at breakers much more closely now.
Take comfort in that the stand you are taking today on this issue could very well save someone's life tomorrow.
Eric Stromberg, P.E.
Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.
Recently, we were getting ready to rack in a 1200 Amp breaker and one of the technicians looked at the breaker stabs. One looked a little funny and so he looked at it closer. It turned out that there was a leaf spring on one of the contacts that had a crack in it. We made some phone calls and found a replacement leaf spring.
I'm looking at breakers much more closely now.
Take comfort in that the stand you are taking today on this issue could very well save someone's life tomorrow.
Eric Stromberg, P.E.
charlie tuna said:
Why does it even have to be considered who's gonna win? Why does safety have anything to do with winning? I think that is one of the biggest problems on both side's actually.
The "excuse" of safety has been abused by the workers "Let's call it a safety issue that way it will get moved to the front burner to get fixed." And abused by the management side "If no body has been hurt yet it must be safe".
I also like that you stated the Confidence factor in there. The thing I believe is Confidence (that comes from experience) is more of a contributor to safety than PPE. Now don't go jumping on me about PPE. I believe in the use of PPE by people that are Confident in what they are doing. Vice people being Confident because they have PPE.
Well guys, it is unfortunate the way safety works or doesn't work. Management at my facility cares very much about safety until it is going to cost them some money or additional downtime. At that point they want to look the other way until someone gets hurt and then the line is you've been told, you know better. It is your fault. We are giving you a week off for your safety infraction. Of course if you don't get hurt they are very appreciative of your good attitude in getting machine going or keeping quiet about something they will have to spend money to fix properly.
Bottom line as far as I am concerned: If you do not know the possible consequences of an action or lack of action, you better not be involved in any type of electrical work that you do not understand well.
Bottom line as far as I am concerned: If you do not know the possible consequences of an action or lack of action, you better not be involved in any type of electrical work that you do not understand well.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
sacrificing safety for money is a common problem -- like not wanting to shutdown a system for repairs and working things hot! this thing about racking breakers by unqualified people is a double headed snake! almost any breaker large enough to be racked out must have some direct effect on the plant's operation. of course personnel safety if first and formost in the issue, but "these" people in management are overlooking downtime and plant operations and the repair costs ------- and the aftermath of an osha investigation! not all management groups operate this way. some are inexperienced and will follow the suggestions of experienced employees.
in the case of changing elevator feeder breakers out on an energized distribution panel bus --- they(management) later admited --- it cost the same to bring a man in early in the morning because it only takes him an hour to complete the work. when working it hot it took three man hours!
but then there are H.R. people who think and believe they know everything and that every employee is out to rip off the company and they actually believe it's "their" money. and i will admit that there are times the employee sometimes uses safety issues beyound it's intended reason. one building we worked at had a large planter and the dirt needed to be removed to repair some leaks around some pvc raceways that ran thru it. we had priced out in our bid the rental of a backhoe to move the dirt. management asked if they could do that work themselves???? this could save the backhoe rental fee of $460.00. they assigned a building maintainance engineer this task. it took him three weeks to remove the dirt and two weeks to fill the planter back in. during this period of time the storage of the dirt tied up seven parking spaces for four weeks which lost them $400.00. i never argue with the customer -- i give them my oppinion and go from there. i gave them credit on the rental fee of $460.00 but did not remove my overhead and profit of the backhoe which was $120.00. i could justify this since the job dragged out for a month instead of a three day operation. did they learn anything -- i seriously doubt it. to this day they think they saved their company money.................................
in the case of changing elevator feeder breakers out on an energized distribution panel bus --- they(management) later admited --- it cost the same to bring a man in early in the morning because it only takes him an hour to complete the work. when working it hot it took three man hours!
but then there are H.R. people who think and believe they know everything and that every employee is out to rip off the company and they actually believe it's "their" money. and i will admit that there are times the employee sometimes uses safety issues beyound it's intended reason. one building we worked at had a large planter and the dirt needed to be removed to repair some leaks around some pvc raceways that ran thru it. we had priced out in our bid the rental of a backhoe to move the dirt. management asked if they could do that work themselves???? this could save the backhoe rental fee of $460.00. they assigned a building maintainance engineer this task. it took him three weeks to remove the dirt and two weeks to fill the planter back in. during this period of time the storage of the dirt tied up seven parking spaces for four weeks which lost them $400.00. i never argue with the customer -- i give them my oppinion and go from there. i gave them credit on the rental fee of $460.00 but did not remove my overhead and profit of the backhoe which was $120.00. i could justify this since the job dragged out for a month instead of a three day operation. did they learn anything -- i seriously doubt it. to this day they think they saved their company money.................................
- Status