LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Another thread showing one advantage of a panel in the kitchen.
range hoods
- Thread starter wigi
- Start date
- Status
allenwayne said:
Would there be a problem with running in #14 for deticated,refer,disposal,dishwasher,hood,''not micro-hood''.As long as your loads are under the specs? Most disposals and dishwashers are, and hoods dont take more then 3 to 4 amps on the average.since they are not continuous loads I think they dont need any special consideration.
Any input on tying the hood to another apliance if it is just a simple hood fan light unit?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
acrwc10 said:
If the other loads fastened in place on the circuit do not exceed 50% of the circuit ampacity then you're good. That is if the hood is hard wired.
- Location
- Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
Back when I used to do condos and aprtments the kitchen or just outside the kitchen was the place for the units panel.
That said I doubt most home owners want a panel in the kitchen that meets the 110.26 requirments.
iwire said:
Have I got some pics for you! (well, I will after I shoot 'em)
Condo/townhouse - lowest priced unit = $800k, upper end = $2.5mil +
90% of the units have the panel in the kitchen...super tight fit...but you do have your 110.26 met....and it looks like crap.
- Location
- Massachusetts
What I was saying was that I do see them in kitchens of multi occupancy dwelling units which are usually designed and built without the future tenants input.
On the other hand when a person is building a new home for themselves I think a panel in a kitchen would be a tough sell.
On the other hand when a person is building a new home for themselves I think a panel in a kitchen would be a tough sell.
Looking in the NEC at 210.11 (C) for the 20A SABC call out, we get directed to 210.52 (B) Going there and reading the exceptions (1) is about lighting control (switched) and (2) allows 15A (14/2) or greater (12/2) for refrigeration. So the CMP is not dead head set against reasonable match up of equipment to the load provided.
So now looking at 210.23 (2) and agree to 50% (900va or 7.5A - 430.248 says up to 1/3 HP for 7.2A)for utilization equipment on a 15A (14/2) circuit. Hmmm...
Go look at 422.16 (B) (4)condition#5 and 422.31 (B). Both are new to the 2005 in verbage on wrestling with how to have appliance(s) disconnect, and still be stuck on their own dedicated circuit. No call out for a 20A! I interpet this as permission to run 14/2, and while there, makes me want to put the hood on the lighting circuit for common sense (currently a code violation - but seems to lack substantiation on risk assessment/hazardous analysis of why we can't).
So does anyone know if we are going to be able to string #14 in a kitchen (not neccasarily dedicated) in 2008 as long as it doesn't have provision for counter or wall power? Currently I only do the kitchen lights on #14, The #12 allows for an "oops", if you have to use it for a "missed plug".
So now looking at 210.23 (2) and agree to 50% (900va or 7.5A - 430.248 says up to 1/3 HP for 7.2A)for utilization equipment on a 15A (14/2) circuit. Hmmm...
Go look at 422.16 (B) (4)condition#5 and 422.31 (B). Both are new to the 2005 in verbage on wrestling with how to have appliance(s) disconnect, and still be stuck on their own dedicated circuit. No call out for a 20A! I interpet this as permission to run 14/2, and while there, makes me want to put the hood on the lighting circuit for common sense (currently a code violation - but seems to lack substantiation on risk assessment/hazardous analysis of why we can't).
So does anyone know if we are going to be able to string #14 in a kitchen (not neccasarily dedicated) in 2008 as long as it doesn't have provision for counter or wall power? Currently I only do the kitchen lights on #14, The #12 allows for an "oops", if you have to use it for a "missed plug".
allenwayne
Senior Member
acrwc10 said:
The bid is done with 20 amp circuits so that is what is installed.I always figure that there will possibly a micro/hood installed.So a 20 amp dedicated circuit is supplied.Maybe not required but that is what is installed.
Kithchens are normally a six circuit gig. Fridge,Micro(12/3), dish, insinkerator(12/3), 2sabc's 12/2 each. Ranges are normally 8/3, lights are #14, so why not match the load(s) to small items to, following the 50% rule? Show me a range hood fan/light, for residential that is going to draw 7.5 amps. It's not going to happen in this lifetime. Until it's code though, I can't put it on with a few lights around the kitchen, so we have to drag a circuit in for a 2.5 amp max draw, piece of gear. Maybe 2011, I'll do something about it, proposal could get shot down, but it's an effort the right direction.
allenwayne
Senior Member
With the lower costs of micro / hoods today I found that most homeowners will have one of those over a standard plain jane range hood.Especially true in a new home.Regardless we bid a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the micro/hood.Now it`s the builder that reaps the most profit.They charge the homeowner for something they are getting anyway.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Rockyd said:
Who says you cant put it on a lighting circuit ?
422.16 (4) (5) - The receptacle is supplied by an individual branch circuit. I read individual branch circuit in definitions (art 100) as A branch circuit that supplies only one utilization equipment. he two together are saying that the hood gets it's own circuit.
I think that is totally ridiculous, but the verbage indicates that it's is code. Please correct me, and provide substantiation for the local inspector(s) I deal with. As it stands right now, that's the interpetation I was given, so I have to live with it, no matter what I think, unless there is the right ammunition...
I think that is totally ridiculous, but the verbage indicates that it's is code. Please correct me, and provide substantiation for the local inspector(s) I deal with. As it stands right now, that's the interpetation I was given, so I have to live with it, no matter what I think, unless there is the right ammunition...
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician (retired)
Rockyd said:
If you're asking if the range hood must be on it own circuit the answer is yes if it's cord and plug connected. No if it's hard wired.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
infinity said:
And that makes since.If there is a plug then the microwave is just a simple plug it in.Bought new micro/hood fan today for $119 thats far cheaper than 20 years ago.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Jim that was my whole point.Bid a dedicated 20 amp. circuit and be done with it.
Thanks for clarifying.
To me (individual branch circuit), a microwave always gets it's own seperate circuit. The range hood to me, has always been a seperate issue about a light and fan over a gas, or electric range, or cooktop, to eliminate smoke and provide lighting for the workspace thereof.
To me (individual branch circuit), a microwave always gets it's own seperate circuit. The range hood to me, has always been a seperate issue about a light and fan over a gas, or electric range, or cooktop, to eliminate smoke and provide lighting for the workspace thereof.
allenwayne said:
alot of homes have microwaves built in else where in the kitchen, why install the dedicated circuit if it is not needed?
In some of the homes we work on it is no easy task to get from the panel to the kitchen and the hood is little more then a fan light built into the cabinetry, We end up running at least 10 circuits in to the kitchen as it is, hate to waist one.iwire said:
Here is one of the pics promised..this is a "hi-end" unit - 800k+celtic said:
110.26 meet...but clearly it looks like crap:
Sorry for the lack of quality...a dirty lense on a cellphone is just one of the issues.
I'll post some equally crappy shots again
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