Rants about Engineer's Drawings and Specs

[peter d]

I had to kick the plumber and duct work out of a chase to run this major duct bank through the plant with a custom jb above the office ceiling and then thread the needle above the barjoists with PVC coated RGS over the filter beds.

C'mon Tim, that couldn't have taken more than a few hours!

 

[Sierrasparky]

all the bickering in the world is not going to change my mind.
As an EC those EE need to stop hiding behind the plans. Making the problem The Contractor. They need to provide accurate information and plans. They get paid the big bucks take some responsibility.
I had a dealing with a EE recently "See

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=84514

The EE drew the plans after I had given an estimate to the Owner. He drew what he wanted not what the owner Wanted or needed. He brew a bolt on Panelboard I Quoted a Standard pushon load center. When asked about the change he stated "as per "
I sent the Owner a cost for the upgrade they were furious at the cost. I showed them the cost sheet I only charged the difference. There were at least a dozen or so other issues this arrogant >>>>>>> would not respond to .

 

[kingpb]

all the bickering in the world is not going to change my mind.
As an EC those EE need to stop hiding behind the plans. Making the problem The Contractor. They need to provide accurate information and plans. They get paid the big bucks take some responsibility.
I had a dealing with a EE recently "See

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=84514

The EE drew the plans after I had given an estimate to the Owner. He drew what he wanted not what the owner Wanted or needed. He brew a bolt on Panelboard I Quoted a Standard pushon load center. When asked about the change he stated "as per "
I sent the Owner a cost for the upgrade they were furious at the cost. I showed them the cost sheet I only charged the difference. There were at least a dozen or so other issues this arrogant >>>>>>> would not respond to .

I can understand your frustration, but, you also need to realize that if the Owner hired the EE, and the Owner hired you, it is then most likely that the EE has no obligation to discuss directly with you, unless the Owner agrees, or requests him (or her) too. Often times the Owner will not want the EE talking to the EC. (I think it's a control thing).

The EE may also have been the same firm that designed the original store, and they were basing the modifications according to their record drawings. If the EC didn't provide a good set of red-lines, or any at all (may not have been oblighated too) then the record set doesn't match the actual installation, hence the discrepancies.

If you feel there were errors, forget the legal ramifications, you have to decide if you do the work or not. In my opinion, installing what you, in your professional opinion, is incorrect and not to code, but you do it anyway to make the bucks, is just as bad.

Before you pass judgement on others, make sure you have all the facts, keeping in mind there are two sides to every story; with the truth usually being somewhere in between.

 

[Sierrasparky]

The ee had a correct set of asbuilts. The even had a current Site survey. Th had the manufatucures part numbers of the AC units. THeven had the Electric meter number. .
My issue is not only with the one project . I am tired of the garbage plans EE spew out. It's one thing if you are already hired. How is one supposed to bid a project with multiple costly mistakes , The EE unwilling to comunicate, Bid date approching. How is it you give a price to cover the mistakes and be competitive to the others that did not see them. I hear all the time don't bring up the Errors It will be an extra.. A year later I hear about the bikering over payments and extras , and cost overuns..
THE EE needs to do a competent job period.

As far as installing what is wrong ,, I willnot do that.
As far as walking.. That could make things worse, As I would charge for my time and lost profits. Then the ___ will really hit the fan.

As far as I am concerned the EE is the one who is allowing things to get out of hand. It does nto matter to me how much pressure or changes a client puts on the EE . The EE needs to put out a competent product. Not put something the clients want but is known to be wrong just to see if they can get away with it...

 

[W6SJK]

It seems likely that the EE was not up to par on this project. But competent work as a whole is why I asked the original question. Unfortunately many if not most clients base their decisions on price, even for engineering. (Would you buy this bldg designed by the low bidder?) We are getting to be just a comodity or means-to-an-end. They don't care what the drawings look like. Just as long as it gets permitted and built.

We have a good reputation and have been able to charge resonable fees for good work and have many repeat clients, some for as long as 30yrs. I asked the question so as to stay in the top tier of EE's that are known by clients and electricians for putting out quality work on time. Thanks to all for the input.

 

[Sierrasparky]

It seems likely that the EE was not up to par on this project. But competent work as a whole is why I asked the original question. Unfortunately many if not most clients base their decisions on price, even for engineering. (Would you buy this bldg designed by the low bidder?) We are getting to be just a comodity or means-to-an-end. They don't care what the drawings look like. Just as long as it gets permitted and built.

We have a good reputation and have been able to charge resonable fees for good work and have many repeat clients, some for as long as 30yrs. I asked the question so as to stay in the top tier of EE's that are known by clients and electricians for putting out quality work on time. Thanks to all for the input.

Hi
I don't know how your company is run. I've been doing this type of work for years I get very few plans without costly mistakes.
As far as my EE not being on par that is very kind. I would have taken him out back for a stoning if that were ok. This guy has been so arrogant and costing me a good relationship with the client. The client does not know who to believe. They side on the EE because of His degree...

The biggest problem is that most owners want the bottom line price. They don't want a bid messed up with Adders unless they speciically add them.
when placing a bid I am always concerned weather or not the other guy took into account the mistakes I did. It is always very difficult to get paid on a project for extras. So to me accurate plans are necessary.