Ray G.

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Ray G.

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I have a young lighting/electrical designer who wants to have floor boxes within 20 ft. of a indoor swimming pool to serve as the G.F.C.I. outlet requirement in the pool deck. She would not take no as a answer , and took up 45 min. of my bosses time . My home work for the weekend is to provide code data . Here is what I have 406.9 (b) receptacles 15-20 amp installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment cap is inserted-----314.27 (b) floor boxes shall be listed . Exception Where the a.h.j. judges them free from likely exposure to physical damage, moisture , dirt.----90.1 (a) Practical safeguarding .The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons + property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for the untrained person. Any one have any more ??
 
Ray G. said:
I have a young lighting/electrical designer who wants to have floor boxes within 20 ft. of a indoor swimming pool to serve as the G.F.C.I. outlet requirement in the pool deck. She would not take no as a answer , and took up 45 min. of my bosses time . My home work for the weekend is to provide code data . Here is what I have 406.9 (b) receptacles 15-20 amp installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment cap is inserted-----314.27 (b) floor boxes shall be listed . Exception Where the a.h.j. judges them free from likely exposure to physical damage, moisture , dirt.----90.1 (a) Practical safeguarding .The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons + property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for the untrained person. Any one have any more ??
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In addition to your thoughts, I think you could hang your hat on the UL listing of the floor box. NEC 314.27(B) says floor boxes must be listed. It's listing would have to include a wet rating and you won't find one with such a rating.
 
Ray G. said:
I have a young lighting/electrical designer who wants to have floor boxes within 20 ft. of a indoor swimming pool to serve as the G.F.C.I. outlet requirement in the pool deck. She would not take no as a answer , and took up 45 min. of my bosses time . My home work for the weekend is to provide code data . Here is what I have 406.9 (b) receptacles 15-20 amp installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment cap is inserted-----314.27 (b) floor boxes shall be listed . Exception Where the a.h.j. judges them free from likely exposure to physical damage, moisture , dirt.----90.1 (a) Practical safeguarding .The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons + property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for the untrained person. Any one have any more ??
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That is a good homework assignment.

You don't want to have her totally POd so you may play a tad diplomatic and back off on the "...untrained person." Although it is a nice touch.:thumbsup:
 
Tell her you don't plan to go to jail for involuntary manslaughter, that would be the lesser charge you may get, and that she probably doesn't want to go to jail with you for the same charges and since you were just following her design you may get the involuntary manslaughter and she may get even stiffer penalties.

And don't forget the innocent victim that received the death penalty from this.

That may seem harsh, but may help reality sink in.
 
unbelievable , simply amazing.

Those archetects who think they are engineers and life safety experts.
 
Ray G. said:
I have a young lighting/electrical designer who wants to have floor boxes within 20 ft. of a indoor swimming pool to serve as the G.F.C.I. outlet requirement in the pool deck. She would not take no as a answer , and took up 45 min. of my bosses time . My home work for the weekend is to provide code data . Here is what I have 406.9 (b) receptacles 15-20 amp installed in a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof whether or not the attachment cap is inserted-----314.27 (b) floor boxes shall be listed . Exception Where the a.h.j. judges them free from likely exposure to physical damage, moisture , dirt.----90.1 (a) Practical safeguarding .The purpose of this code is the practical safeguarding of persons + property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for the untrained person. Any one have any more ??
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start with a sheet of plywood. cut in the floor box.
put it up on some sleepers so it'll sit level on the floor.

put some chicken wire on the plywood, and make sure it's grounded.

put 120 vac to the floor box. soak the plywood, and box. nice and wet.

now, have her put on her bathing suit, and soak her down liberally.

then have her go over and stand on the box, or maybe even stoop
over and plug in a hair dryer, while water runs into the box from her arm.

experience is always a better teacher than theory.
 
I feel for you !!! When some women get ideas in their minds it's tough to un-convince them. She probably saw something similar in a magazine and wants that done at her house. There's nothing in any code book that says that any type of installations shown in magazine photos have to be code compliant. They'll do whatever it takes to sell that product. Good luck.
 
goldstar said:
I feel for you !!! When some women get ideas in their minds it's tough to un-convince them. She probably saw something similar in a magazine and wants that done at her house. There's nothing in any code book that says that any type of installations shown in magazine photos have to be code compliant. They'll do whatever it takes to sell that product. Good luck.
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I took the OP to indicate this woman was a professional designer of some sort and not necessarily the owner, which means even if this is her own installation she likely would still specify the same thing for clients.



NEC only requires one receptacle and it must be no less than 6 feet but no more than 20 feet from the pool. And this is for pools at dwellings. I don't think there are many pools at dwelling locations where there is absolutely no vertical surfaces where one could put this required receptacle, but guess I could be wrong, permanent pools at dwellings are not all that common in this neck of the woods, but I haven't even seen many non residential pools where this requirement would be very difficult to meet.
 
Ray -- The question was also asked to me for reference (not in my juristiction) -- my response was none till I was able to reasearch it -- I personally do not like the idea and an still searching for proper direction within the code. Kwired response to another thread I started may be the answer with the box being mounted above the deck on GRC -- Natural bodies of water specify 12" above the plane & unless the J box is connected to the wet niche there is no distance above deck specified.
 
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Ray G. said:
I have a young lighting/electrical designer who wants to have floor boxes within 20 ft. of a indoor swimming pool to serve as the G.F.C.I. outlet requirement in the pool deck.
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kwired said:
It does not meet weatherproof while in use requirements from what I can tell.
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I'm not sure that you would have to meet the weatherproof while in use requirement. The pool is an "indoor" type. Must be a darn big building not to have a wall within 20 ft. I think the area around the pool is a damp location.

It's a dumb idea but it may be possible to install this type of floor box.

I would talk about it with the inspection department and see if they have ever seen a set up like this before (that passed).
 
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