Reading Skills

[don_resqcapt19]

The NEC Style Manual gives the rules on how the NEC is to be written, much like the rules you had in school for how term papers were to be written.
Don

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Larry the Dictionary printing is not on the same 3 year schedule as the NEC... so we still have the 11th Edition. 8)

By the way, have you looked at the past history of the NEC?

From 1947 to 1959 there were 10 Editions to the NEC. Could you imagine if they were to do the now????????????

 

[cowboyjwc]

The problem is not all with the readers, though most people read at no more than a 6th or 8th grade level (I can't remember which).

The NEC is written at college level and also in what I refer to as leagleze.

I read it every day and still have trouble with some of the articles.

Remember just because you buy the pencils and books doesn't mean you can teach them to read and write.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Cowboy wrote:
"Remember just because you buy the pencils and books doesn't mean you can teach them to read and write. "

But you can sure as hell try!!!

 

[wmgeorge]

Re: Reading the Code

Re: Reading the Code

I teach at a community college, HVAC stuff. I can tell you that today a student coming in from High School are in a sad, sad state. Not only do they have very low reading skills, they have trouble doing the very basic math and some can not even use a calculator!!

This is the MTV generation, who require video, audio and lots of hands on practice. Even then I really wonder about a lot of them, functioning in the real world. They want to get it done now and be out of here, never mind if its right! Some of them can't remember what they learned or did yesterday!!

In every class of say 20 or so, there will be perhaps less than 10 that I can feel good about when they leave, the rest... would be better off working at a fast food place.

No wonder the jobs are headed overseas?

I do have to admit, I thought this would be a good discussion topic when I first saw it and I have to say, it is pretty good reading! Pun aside.

We are currently living in a social trend of iPods, rap music (if you call it music) and a whole lot of distractions. The code has concise, clear meaning to me because I come from an era of when we sat down and learned the code. Today, we teach people how to look things up in the code and I feel it has a dumbing down effect. People learn the code via osmosis, from making mistakes and having an AHJ bring it to their attention. We have an ongoing list here in the office of terminologies, things we here guys say that are not written down in any of the code books or technical documents. Simply put, people have their own languages which are, as they always have been, a combination of different cultures melting their interpolations together. (notice i did not say interpretation).



There are new teaching styles in the grade and high schools that also do nothing to encourage reading, writing and arthimatic. It absolutely amazes me how a 20 to 30 year old can say they never learned algebra in school! Never mind trig! And, they have no skills to remember tomorrow what they learned today! Why?

 

[dlhoule]

Larry the Dictionary printing is not on the same 3 year schedule as the NEC... so we still have the 11th Edition. 8)

By the way, have you looked at the past history of the NEC?

From 1947 to 1959 there were 10 Editions to the NEC. Could you imagine if they were to do the now????????????

Well I have now. I didn't get involved with the NEC til the 62 edition. It was only recently that I started to learn more about the history. I wish I had more time for history. Now I seem to have a hard time keeping up with all the new technology, code changes, UL, Ansi, OSHA, Building Codes that affect us, NFPA 70E, NFPA 79. The list goes on and on, but I am still learning and I am thankful for that.

What a GREAT profession we electricians have!

 

[tincan44]

Re: Reading Skills

Pierre,

I believe the instructor can only give 100% anything above that has to come from the student. Like I said I am a 3rd year apprentice and I have guys in my class that couldn't tell you what article covers grounding and it is not because they are stupid, it is because they refuse to open their code book outside of class. I am by no means the brightest light on the string but I do spend a lot of time reading the code book. Yes, I do have other books I have bought on my own like the NEC handbook and many others, but if the only book some of the younger guys can afford is the NFPA 70 then as a student I am going to study that one book so I can be a good electrician. But what I see in my class are guys just wanting to make the grade good enough to pass 70%. To me that speaks volumes, and when it comes down to them or me I will be the one who is picked for advancement and for the big jobs. Just my opinion. I for one appreciate all you instructors who give the 100% and I will give ten fold back because I want it.

Kevin you have what cannot be taught Drive and Determination! Never let go of that and you WILL succeed! Keep asking questions. Apologize if you have too for being a pain, but keep asking until you understand. Fear of failing has always been a great motivator for me.

Charlie I like your quote and sure would like to get my hands on one of those "The Code says..." stickers.

 

[77401]

Re: Reading Skills

It doesn?t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn?t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don?t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

Copyright 2006, Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle WA.

OMG! And this was made into a sticker? For Electricians? Give me a break!
Has anyone ever done a demographic study on Education levels or socio-economic backgrounds of electricians?
Not the PHD or Master degrees of the very select few on here?

I feel you might find that the vast majority, just want a good paying secure job to allow them to feed their family. Yes, many are lazy, & want an easy way out and will allow others to assign them jobs so they don't have to interview, which would mean, being turned down because they are slower or older than the competition.
Most are not college material, computer literate, or even read the paper on a daily basis. This does not make them bad people!

Remember, there is a wirenut for every wire.

 

[iwire]

Re: Reading Skills

It doesn?t say what you think it says, nor what you remember it to have said, nor what you were told that it says, and certainly not what you want it to say, and if by chance you are its author, it doesn?t say what you intended it to say. Then what does it say? It says what it says. So if you want to know what it says, stop trying to remember what it says, and don?t ask anyone else. Go back and read it, and pay attention as though you were reading it for the first time.

Copyright 2006, Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle WA.

OMG! And this was made into a sticker? For Electricians? Give me a break!

I can not even begin to imagine why you think the above is not an excellent little passage that we all should think of while reading a code section. :shock:

BTW I like the monkey. 8)

 

[tom baker]

Charlie-the stickers that you mention are included when you purchase a 2005 NEC Update text from Mike

 

[dlhoule]

BTW I like the monkey.

And all this time I thought it was his photo.:razz: :razz: :razz:

Personally IMO if they went back to educating instead of teaching to pass certain tests we would have a better educational system.

 

[wmgeorge]

Reading

Reading

Pierre,

I am not an instructor but I am a student. And looking at this situation from the other side and giving you my opinion at the same time. I believe the instructor can only give 100% anything above that has to come from the student. Like I said I am a 3rd year apprentice and I have guys in my class that couldn't tell you what article covers grounding and it is not because they are stupid, it is because they refuse to open their code book outside of class.

I teach in a community college, HVAC - but just finished studing after a lapse of 30 years or so, the NEC to past the Master Electrician exam. I can tell you right now the generation coming into the CC and trades now are sadly lacking in reading and math skills. Out of the 16 or so I have now, I would say maybe 3 could study and pass (if they wanted) a Code test. Todays grade and high schools are just interested in getting them out the door. Sure there are a few sharp ones... but not enough. In the past the not sharp ones could get a job at a John Deere or Maytag plant and retire in 30 years... now I don't know what those kids are going to do... Yeah the Maytag Plant is closing after a 100 years or so, good bye 2,000 jobs!