receptacle above ceilings

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barclayd

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
roger said:
Exactly what it says, and no where does it "specifically" mention "above ceilings". If this were the intent the CMP needs to add some wording to "specifically" address this.

Do I get to be included in the excluded group now? :D

Roger
Click to expand...

Maybe - we'll see.

Give me ONE possible example of a 400.7 sub-section that might be able to overide a 400.8 sub-section using the "Unless specifically permitted " preamble.
Just ONE - then maybe I can understand to what "Unless specifically permitted " refers.

ONE (otherwise - have a slightly above average thanksgiving)
db
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Barclay
I think Bob and Roger tried to explain the wording to you...but maybe you did not understand them.

Let me see if I can help.

Flexible cords and cables are located in Chapter 4. Chapter 4 is titled:
Equipment for General Use

Wiring methods are found in Chapter 3.
The NEC recently moved flexible cords and cables into Chapter 4 specifically because they are not wiring methods.

400.7 does provide 10 conditions as to how flexible cords and cables can be installed. Notice, those 10 conditions are fairly restrictive.


400.8 provides 7 conditions of restriction for flexible cords and cables, these restrictions are fairly restrictive as to the use of installation.

"Unless specifically permitted in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following."

Not one of the conditions provided in 400.7 specifically states that the cords can be installed in the drop/suspended ceilings.
Therefore, the restriction provided in 400.8 is what we will install to.



In general, remember that flexible cords and cables are not wiring methods.
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
barclayd said:
Maybe - we'll see.

Give me ONE possible example of a 400.7 sub-section that might be able to overide a 400.8 sub-section using the "Unless specifically permitted " preamble.
Just ONE - then maybe I can understand to what "Unless specifically permitted " refers.

ONE (otherwise - have a slightly above average thanksgiving)
db
Click to expand...


400.8(1) says that flexible cords and cables cannot be used for fixed wiring methods.

400.7(2) says that wiring of luminaires is permitted with flexible cords and cables.
410.14 provides us with direction to 410.30 as to the permitted use of cords for the installation of luminaires.
 
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barclayd

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Pierre C Belarge said:
400.8(1) says that flexible cords and cables cannot be used for fixed wiring methods.

400.7(2) says that wiring of luminaires is permitted with flexible cords and cables.
410.14 provides us with direction to 410.30 as to the permitted use of cords for the installation of luminaires.
Click to expand...

I don't follow the 410.14 & 30 reference - 410.62 maybe?
It allows flexible cords, but they have to have a plug - that would not be a 'fixed' wiring method. I think that scenario would be more appropriate for 400.7(A)(10), rather than (2).

If the "Unless blah blah blah ..." section of 400.8 does not apply to anything, why is it there?

Nice try, though. Have a pretty good thanksgiving.

db
 
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barclayd

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Have a wonderful thanksgiving

Have a wonderful thanksgiving

I'd like to keep going with this, but they just told us we could go home early.

Anyway - a Little Giant condensate pump plugged in to an above ceiling receptacle is a pretty minor offense compared to a lot of stuff around here.

This was fun, but, I gotta go.

HAVE A GREAT THANKSGIVING - EVERYONE

db
 
M

mattsilkwood

Senior Member
Location
missouri
barclayd said:
a Little Giant condensate pump plugged in to an above ceiling receptacle is a pretty minor offense compared to a lot of stuff

db
Click to expand...

i agree. i dont really see it as a major deal but it is something i see alot. i see alot for hvac but the biggest thing i see is for security cameras/monitors.
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
The problem with flexible cord is that it tends to deteriorate over time and become brittle. The damage would go undetected if the flexible cord is installed where it is not visable such as above a suspended ceiling. After time the covering could flake off exposing the conductors inside and could result in a failure of the flexible cord. Whether or not you feel this is a minor thing the code has specifically addressed this issue with the rules in 400.8.

Chris
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
electricmanscott said:
Am I the only one that finds it odd that we can't make a flexible cord that will hold up over time.
Click to expand...

It's call "planned obsolescence",How can they make a living selling cords if they never go bad ? They have to go bad or you will only buy one, everyone knows that. :D
 
acrwc10

acrwc10

Master Code Professional
Location
CA
Occupation
Building inspector
Pierre C Belarge said:
They do make cords that will stand up to the time of day, but...they are very expensive as wiring methods, so the equipment manufacturer uses the cheap stuff.
Click to expand...

Hey didn't you say they are not allowed as a wiring method ? :D:D
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Here's Mike's take on the subject:

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