Receptacle at service panel

[mc5w]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

When we are doing new construction we try to get the permanent service built and energized as quickly as possible. We then install a bunch of GFCI receptacles next to it and/or connect the interior temporary panels to it.

On commercial jobs we can often get away with running a temporary feeder from the temp service to the building using either the telephone conduit while it does not contain a telephone cable or the parking lot lighting conduits.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

i wish we could be allowed to energize the interior panel .That would make matters a whole lot easier.
My question is ,who supervises the panel through drywall , texture,paint etc.Through at least 2 of these stages the panel must be open

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Allen, not all panels are installed in finished areas. Here in Mass it is very rare that the panel is not in the basement. There is no reason for anyone other than the electrician to remove the cover.

[ May 14, 2005, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Originally posted by allenwayne:
i wish we could be allowed to energize the interior panel .That would make matters a whole lot easier.
My question is ,who supervises the panel through drywall , texture,paint etc.Through at least 2 of these stages the panel must be open

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

George IMo it is not our responsibility to protct the interior of a panel from mud,paint etc.We install cardboard at rough in and after that if a trade removes it and subsequently it gets textured/painted what ever.I write an additional work order for $195.00 to replace panel due to contamination.Maybe if we did 200 to 300 homes throughout a year a tin cover might work but brother we did 2,500 last year and projections show over 3,000 this yearThats almost 10 homes a day on a 7 day week.Why should we pay all that money to fabricate install track a protective cover for something that others have no business contaminating.
Believe me when a painting contractor gets a $195.oo B/C for a job he might be making $200.00 profit eyes get opened and it stops fast.I am sure some are reading this and saying what an a _ _ h _ _ _,but when you have to produce these numbers daily and other trades that have to comply within the same time frame mr. nice guys is on hold

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Allen, what is it that stops you from using the panel prior to trim?

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

We are not allowed to energize any part of a system without an inspection that releases power to the permit #,This is in residential.
In commercial we get a rough wall, rough ceiling,service only inspections then a final. In this case we can get a service release turn power on and utilize the circuits temporarily.
In residential we get a uffer/rough insp.,a final insp where we get a poco release for power,in this case the poco says that when they run either underground or overhead to a building
then it is not allowed to have a meter energized or be able to be energized without a county release and that happens only after a final.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

That seems like a truly silly system to me, IMO.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

George the whole system here is quote SILLY !!!!
We have several jurisdictions that require entirely different installs in a residence.
One area allows nm to be stapled to top of 1 X 4 base on a block wall but other requires stackers or stapled to bottom of vertical furring .One area won`t allow a receptacle behind a door on a 24 in + wall but other will fail if not there.All areas now require a uffer but some want a suplemental ground rod.Some areas require a disc. for an AHU in a garage in line of sight of panel but others don`t.Some areas require a breaker lock out if A/C disc is encroached by the unit but other doesn`t .........list goes on and on Keeping up with these requirements is a full time job.Keeping over 180 employees informed of these requirements is even harder Unified building code my B _ _ T

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

All i can say is welcome to Florida.Allen is telling it as it is.I must say i think with gfci and afci that i would think they would want to check them live, but they don't.The idea behind no power till a CO is silly.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Keeping up with these requirements is a full time job.Keeping over 180 employees informed of these requirements is even harder Unified building code my B _ _ T

Are these things local code or uneducated inspectors? I'd say in the long run, you'd be saving yourself time and money to educate them when they call for non-code items.

The AC thing is a judgement call, IMO. This is within the AHJ's right to question.

IMO, AC disconnects are not likely to require "examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized."

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Hard to believe the people in Florida couldn't figure out how to vote. :roll:

 

[roger]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Scott, in all fairness to true Floridians, we must remember only 2% (atleast it seems that way) of the population in the state are true Floridians, and it would be a safe bet that these inspectors are from elsewhere too.

Roger

 

[hmspe]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

George,

You posted, 'IMO, AC disconnects are not likely to require "examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized."'

That would depend on what the disconnect is. If it is a fused disconnect it certainly would fall under 110.26(a). If I was inspecting an A/C installation and clear working space wasn't available I'd fail the installation, fused or not. To disconnect the unit you have to safely access the disconnect. It would be nice to think that electricians will always use the breaker to disconnect power before servicing an A/C unit, but they don't, especially for roof-mounted units.

Martin

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Most disconnects I've seen have the fuses embedded in the pull-out block. I can check those fuses standing on my head.

 

[hmspe]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

On residential most of the fused disconnects I see are "pull outs". Sure, it's easy to check the fuses since they are on the pull out, but you also need to be able to plug the pullout back in safely, and it may be under load. That would bring "examination" into play, if for no other reason that to see if the equipment is in usable condition before re-inserting the pull out. I don't want to be responsible for an electrician having to reach over or behind a condensing unit to reach the disconnect, so I specify clear working space for all A/C disconnects. What happens in the field may not match my specification.

On commercial I see mostly safety switches. Not so much a question there.

Martin

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Receptacle at service panel

Martin, I commend your sense of quality in design.

I take issue with an AHJ failing an A/C hookup because the disconnect is in technical violation of 110.26. Personally, I don't mind being able to sit on the condenser to "examine" the disconnect. I would take issue with the disconnect being mounted behind the condenser, where you'd have to squeeze in between to examine it. But having the disconnect at an elevation where it's not behind the condenser, but perhaps is technically "behind" it shouldn't be a violation, in my book.

I mean, the disconnect is there to make the unit safe to service, not to look important.