Receptacle back wired, backstabbed. Four cases in the past month.

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newservice

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Just an FYI here and a musing on how this can still be allowed on receptacle and other devices. I have personally serviced no less than 4 homes recently, all the same complaint, no power in part of the house. Each one had a failed and in a couple cases rather severely burnt receptacle that was backwired to blame.

You would think the UL people would never allow this.

The one I did yesterday was only burnt enough to interrupt the power to his bedroom, ( after the wife plugged in the iron and the AC unit). Newer house, good 14 romex wiring. He had previously replaced all the receptacles himself with new TR plugs from Home Depot, and had backwired every one of them. It was the first in line receptacle that the failure occurred at, something I find a lot the first plug takes the worst of the current obviously. He is in the process of pigtailing every one.

How these things are still manufactured this was is a mystery. One tiny blade of metal spring to press against the wire.
 
newservice said:
Just an FYI here and a musing on how this can still be allowed on receptacle and other devices. I have personally serviced no less than 4 homes recently, all the same complaint, no power in part of the house. Each one had a failed and in a couple cases rather severely burnt receptacle that was backwired to blame.

You would think the UL people would never allow this.

The one I did yesterday was only burnt enough to interrupt the power to his bedroom, ( after the wife plugged in the iron and the AC unit). Newer house, good 14 romex wiring. He had previously replaced all the receptacles himself with new TR plugs from Home Depot, and had backwired every one of them. It was the first in line receptacle that the failure occurred at, something I find a lot the first plug takes the worst of the current obviously. He is in the process of pigtailing every one.

How these things are still manufactured this was is a mystery. One tiny blade of metal spring to press against the wire.
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I hear you, and in a perfect world this type of termination for receptacles would never see the light of day.

OTOH, are you sure it is the connection type itself or was it the installer?

And on that point, how can we know if said ignorant HO or an idiot installer would've have done the side screw terminations correctly if he had done it ​that way?;)
 
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newservice said:
How these things are still manufactured this was is a mystery. One tiny blade of metal spring to press against the wire.
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This is why those push-in "wire nuts" make me nervous. Having the spring part of the current path, and thus subject to heat-cool cycles seems like a really bad idea to me. Wire nuts have 100 year track record of working (when properly installed). Maybe my grandchildren will finally feel OK using those push-in connectors, but I usually don't.



SceneryDriver
 
SceneryDriver said:
This is why those push-in "wire nuts" make me nervous. Having the spring part of the current path, and thus subject to heat-cool cycles seems like a really bad idea to me. Wire nuts have 100 year track record of working (when properly installed). Maybe my grandchildren will finally feel OK using those push-in connectors, but I usually don't.



SceneryDriver
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The way the wire connects using 'Wago' type connectors is different than what is in a back stab receptacle. You can see through the connectors, so it's obvious what the connection is like. You have to tear a receptacle apart to see inside those. I have done it and will use the connectors with no guilt, but won't back stab a receptacle.
 
K8MHZ said:
The way the wire connects using 'Wago' type connectors is different than what is in a back stab receptacle. You can see through the connectors, so it's obvious what the connection is like. You have to tear a receptacle apart to see inside those. I have done it and will use the connectors with no guilt, but won't back stab a receptacle.
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X2

Jap>
 
I wonder how many of the backwire failures were caused by too short an amount of insulation stripped off the conductors?

I've seen as many screw/side-wire failures as back wire, but those terminations probably outnumber backwire 50 to 1 from what Ive seen.

If receptacle bodies were clear like wagos, and you could see the conductor seat in all the way, would they be more reliable? Or is it a pure design flaw vs wagos?
 
I've seen dozens of failed backstab connections, but always where the circuit connection is made through the receptacle. I use backstabs for receptacles and switches, but the circuit connections are always through wagos or wire nuts. Most cities here in the Bay Area require that all connections be pigtailed, no feed throughs.
 
electricguy61 said:
I've seen dozens of failed backstab connections, but always where the circuit connection is made through the receptacle. I use backstabs for receptacles and switches, but the circuit connections are always through wagos or wire nuts. Most cities here in the Bay Area require that all connections be pigtailed, no feed throughs.
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We still back-wire all devices on 15 amp circuits but always pigtail. I have never had a callback. Years ago when I did service work I probably saw almost as many side-wire failures as back-wire failures and all were feed through devices. In my opinion UL should not list receptacles for feed through application.
 
Back when, we used back stabbed receptacles & had no failures with them.
I have use the "port" (stab-in) connectors instead of wire nuts for quite some time, with no failure. One job had a constant load over 3 hours with a load of 16 amps with no failure.
I had a service call where power was out in a bedroom. After furniture was moved to check all of the receptacles, found the cause. Loose neutral on receptacle where the wire was wrapped around the screw. There was black marks on the sheet-rock above the receptacle.
 
SceneryDriver said:
This is why those push-in "wire nuts" make me nervous. Having the spring part of the current path, and thus subject to heat-cool cycles seems like a really bad idea to me. Wire nuts have 100 year track record of working (when properly installed). Maybe my grandchildren will finally feel OK using those push-in connectors, but I usually don't.



SceneryDriver
Click to expand...

K8MHZ said:
The way the wire connects using 'Wago' type connectors is different than what is in a back stab receptacle. You can see through the connectors, so it's obvious what the connection is like. You have to tear a receptacle apart to see inside those. I have done it and will use the connectors with no guilt, but won't back stab a receptacle.
Click to expand...

another difference between the receptacle and the "Wago" is you stab conductor into the receptacle then push the device when positioning/mounting it to the box. This may put some strain on the connection, where with the "wago" you stab the conductor into the connector and usually push on the conductors more so then the connector when tucking things into the box.

I have no idea if UL looks at it from that perspective or not when testing.
 
UL used to allow #12 wire on these receptacles but later changed the listing to only allow 14 gauge. They had to re-tool so that nobody could push a 12 awg in the backwire area.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
UL used to allow #12 wire on these receptacles but later changed the listing to only allow 14 gauge. They had to re-tool so that nobody could push a 12 awg in the backwire area.
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I'd bet strain from pushing device into the box had some to do with that change. Of course to make matters worse 30-40 years ago people didn't pay attention to box fill requirements either, making more strain when the box was too small.
 
kwired said:
I'd bet strain from pushing device into the box had some to do with that change. Of course to make matters worse 30-40 years ago people didn't pay attention to box fill requirements either, making more strain when the box was too small.
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I pulled a large number of Eagle backstab only duplex receptacles dating back to 1964 & 1968, all were replaced because grounding slots were worn out, otherwise in pretty decent shape for their age, the brass strip that retains the backstabbed conductor was much wider compared to newer devices.
 
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