Receptacle back wired, backstabbed. Four cases in the past month.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is a wire nut a better connection than a wire wrapped around a screw? If you pigtail everything that is all you are saying.
 
electricguy61 said:
I've seen dozens of failed backstab connections, but always where the circuit connection is made through the receptacle. I use backstabs for receptacles and switches, but the circuit connections are always through wagos or wire nuts. , no feed throughs.
Click to expand...

I pigtail and wrap screw everything. I don't like the wagos or back stabbing, unless it is repair work, the wires are short and I can not get my fingers in the box to do a wire nut job.

Most cities here in the Bay Area require that all connections be pigtailed
Click to expand...
Which city requires this? Is it recommendation by the inspector or it is a city rule?
 
Last edited:
Galt said:
Is a wire nut a better connection than a wire wrapped around a screw? If you pigtail everything that is all you are saying.
Click to expand...

No. Pigtailing eliminates the use of the receptacle as a connector. The screws are incidental. Using a receptacle as a connector makes for two points of failure, and the material connecting the screws usually gets very hot when one screw gets loose and the circuit is carrying a lot of current.

I don't think I have ever seen a burnt receptacle that was pigtailed. I have two samples of burnt receptacles. Both used the screws, they weren't back stabbed. Neither were pigtailed and both used the receptacle as a connector.

I have seen this many times. That's reason enough for me to pigtail all my receptacles.
 
edward said:
I pigtail and wrap screw everything. I don't like the wagos or back stabbing, unless it is repair work, the wires are short and I can not get my fingers in the box to do a wire nut job.


Which city requires this? Is it recommendation by the inspector or it is a city rule?
Click to expand...

All that I've worked in. Since it's not NEC required, I assume it's a local ordinance. I just do it automatically now, as I find it makes trim out much faster.
 
electricguy61 said:
All that I've worked in. Since it's not NEC required, I assume it's a local ordinance. I just do it automatically now, as I find it makes trim out much faster.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I would guess since all the inspector sees is pigtails on my job the conversation has never come up.

But good info to know. From now on I will ask them about it and see if I can press some buttons.
 
electricguy61 said:
All that I've worked in. Since it's not NEC required, I assume it's a local ordinance. I just do it automatically now, as I find it makes trim out much faster.
Click to expand...
Might make trim out faster, but you still spent the time to do it, just not at trim out.

coffeebean said:
Why is the NEC implementing a new section 110.14 (D) installation torquing requirements? Can anyone tell me how much torque the backstabbing springs have?
Click to expand...
How much torque is in a hypress crimp connection?

Torque is a value that doesn't apply in such applications.
 
electricguy61 said:
Really? Wow, I would never have known. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I usually find I am being pushed more at rough in then at trim out, because they are trying to get drywallers in ASAP. So I have more time at trim out to make all those connections.

If you are one of those that the AHJ ants those connections made at rough in, that is unfortunate I guess.
 
Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

K8MHZ said:
No. Pigtailing eliminates the use of the receptacle as a connector. The screws are incidental. Using a receptacle as a connector makes for two points of failure, and the material connecting the screws usually gets very hot when one screw gets loose and the circuit is carrying a lot of current.

I don't think I have ever seen a burnt receptacle that was pigtailed. I have two samples of burnt receptacles. Both used the screws, they weren't back stabbed. Neither were pigtailed and both used the receptacle as a connector.

I have seen this many times. That's reason enough for me to pigtail all my receptacles.
Click to expand...

I find it faster to pigtail out the receptacles, especially if using wagos, or there are more than two cables in the box. I prefer pigtailing as well unless it's the last receptacle on the circuit (one cable in), or a GFCI where I need the pass-thru protection, and those are pressure plate connections anyway.
 
kwired said:
I usually find I am being pushed more at rough in then at trim out, because they are trying to get drywallers in ASAP. So I have more time at trim out to make all those connections.

If you are one of those that the AHJ ants those connections made at rough in, that is unfortunate I guess.
Click to expand...

That interests me because I've always felt more rushed on trimout. Homeowner has lost all patience due to unreliable tradesmen dragging it out, time running out on construction loan, need to move out of existing residence, etc.

Also on rough-in I have some control over how much I do, leave service entrance till later if necessary etc. But on trim-out there is no almost done, its either done or it isn't
 
readydave8 said:
That interests me because I've always felt more rushed on trimout. Homeowner has lost all patience due to unreliable tradesmen dragging it out, time running out on construction loan, need to move out of existing residence, etc.

Also on rough-in I have some control over how much I do, leave service entrance till later if necessary etc. But on trim-out there is no almost done, its either done or it isn't
Click to expand...
Not saying there aren't ever some of those pressures at trim out for me, but the majority of switches and receptacles are usually installed before the cabinets, trim, flooring, etc. are completed. What I am being pushed on at the end of the project is connecting appliances, maybe hanging certain fixtures, waiting for kitchen cabinets/counters/backsplashes before I can finish some items in that particular room. I often have majority of what I don't have to wait for someone else installed fairly soon after painting is done, but before flooring, trim, (sometimes trim is in progress at same time) cabinets are installed. I still clean up after myself, but if done at this stage I don't have to be as particular with cleanup as I would if floors were finished.
 
I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, but I live in a house that is 37 years old, and was wired with backstabbed receptacles. I bought the house when it was 18 years old. At 30 years old, I did some remodeling and replaced all of the receptacles in the house just as a PM gesture. I back stabbed them.

I never had any problems with any receptacles in my house, never ever.
 
I just fixed on the other day where the owner replaced receptacles with pressure plate terminations (like most current GFCI receptacles use). Apparently didn't get one of them tight enough. It failed shortly after they started using a window air conditioner on a downstream outlet.
 
kwired said:
I just fixed on the other day where the owner replaced receptacles with pressure plate terminations (like most current GFCI receptacles use). Apparently didn't get one of them tight enough. It failed shortly after they started using a window air conditioner on a downstream outlet.
Click to expand...

I'm not completely sold on pressure plate connections. Google has several pictures of burnt GFCI's with no load connections, and they all looked like pressure plate connection failures.
 
K8MHZ said:
I'm not completely sold on pressure plate connections. Google has several pictures of burnt GFCI's with no load connections, and they all looked like pressure plate connection failures.
Click to expand...
I have to agree that some you find on receptacle devices seem to suck, yet there are similar terminations on circuit breakers, contactors, etc that are just fine.
 
K8MHZ said:
I'm not completely sold on pressure plate connections. Google has several pictures of burnt GFCI's with no load connections, and they all looked like pressure plate connection failures.
Click to expand...

I've seen several pressure plate connections that have failed, and they always looked to me like the plate had ended up cross threaded on the screw, or stripped. It's not supposed to be able to happen, as the screws are "staked," but Bubba with a large flat blade or Johnny Q Homeowner turning the screwdriver the wrong way can damage the threads.



SceneryDriver
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top