RECEPTACLE connections loop or backwire
- Thread starter sjung
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JDB3
Senior Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
As stated above, when properly done, either will be as good as the other. In the old days, we back stabbed them all, no problems.
mopowr steve
Senior Member
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- NW Ohio
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curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
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- Electrical Contractor
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- Illinois
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- retired electrician
If there were no problems why did UL change the rules to prohibit using the back stab connections with #12 wire?
Because if the receptacles are originally back-stabbed with #12 and then removed and re-used and back-stabbed with #14 this led to failures due to the contact points not grabbing the smaller wire tight enough.
YourElectricianOC
Member
- Location
- Orange County, CA
By all means, please continue to use the backstab connections. 
I love the margin on those service calls. Easy money.
Take apart a receptacle with both options available, and look at the surface area that you have available for conduction with the backstabs versus the screw terminals. No brainer. :dunce:
I love the margin on those service calls. Easy money.
Take apart a receptacle with both options available, and look at the surface area that you have available for conduction with the backstabs versus the screw terminals. No brainer. :dunce:
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For clarification, in post number two I am not talking about back stab type devices. With that said, I agree that back stabbing is not always bad, I have devices that were back stabbed in a home that have been in place since the late 70's with no problems.
Roger
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
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- Electrician ,contractor
I seriously doubt that was the reasoning, However I was not active in the process at that time. My understanding is that for feed through the back stab cannot handle the load.
Because there werre plenty of failures. I have never seen a feed through fail when using the screws where they were installed correctly. However place a space heater on a backstab and you will have a failure. Just a mater of time.
Originally Posted by roger
If the device is manufactured with pressure plate type connecting, ( as in spec grade and HG type receptacles) back wiring is the better choice IMO.
OOOOOh I hate those. I prefer a regular screw any day. Those clamp type garbage connectors come loose as you fold back the wires with 12 ga.
Roger
Where did you come up with that quote?
Roger
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Yes, where they were installed correctly. I too have seen more problems with screw connections than back stab.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
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- Electrician ,contractor
By the time I caught that It was too late to edit Sorry,
This touch pad on my laptop sometimes jumps the curser when I don't realize it.
So can you quantify those screw connections as failing overall, or due to poor original installation technique?
You just may be following a crew or even a whole company that just didn't care what happened after their check cleared.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Probably poor installation technique.
Maybe, or a whole bunch of companies that didn't care what happened after their check cleared.
No different than going over and finding a burnt wire at the breaker and giving the screw 3 or four good turns. How do you forget to tighten a screw?
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- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Can you cite a source for that comment?
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
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- electrician
Personally I see more backstab than screw connection failures, however have run across groups of screw connection failures, seem to be related to torque setting on original installer's cordless. Or obviously sloppy loops.
p real
Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, CO
I have noticed one thing about the backstabs over the years but i believe that it also affects screw terminals as well on a lesser scale...
heat damage is always obvious.
But i see way more that just pull out or work a terminal loose... and those have always been harder to explain.
When an outlet is installed, if the electrician does not fold all the wires in nicely behind it, it creates a lot of tension pushing the outlet back away from the box.
Then people push plugs into it and pull them out for 15 yrs and all that forward and backward motion is what i believe works those wires out.
The box is stationary, the outlet is stationary,(maybe) but with the wires on tension behind it, the wire works its way out tiny bits at a time til it pulls out.
Just my theory. No other way to explain how that much movement can happen in something that seems to not move...
Same theory with the screw terminals. The wire loops are round. The screw is round. Makes a nice hinge after 15 yrs of microscopic movement back and forth... stops making contact. Burns up... one little arc blast at a time...
My 2 cents worth...
heat damage is always obvious.
But i see way more that just pull out or work a terminal loose... and those have always been harder to explain.
When an outlet is installed, if the electrician does not fold all the wires in nicely behind it, it creates a lot of tension pushing the outlet back away from the box.
Then people push plugs into it and pull them out for 15 yrs and all that forward and backward motion is what i believe works those wires out.
The box is stationary, the outlet is stationary,(maybe) but with the wires on tension behind it, the wire works its way out tiny bits at a time til it pulls out.
Just my theory. No other way to explain how that much movement can happen in something that seems to not move...
Same theory with the screw terminals. The wire loops are round. The screw is round. Makes a nice hinge after 15 yrs of microscopic movement back and forth... stops making contact. Burns up... one little arc blast at a time...
My 2 cents worth...
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- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
And two and two and fifty make a million...
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