Receptacle location around a church baptistery

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rroark0003 said:
At what distance can receptacles be installed in relation to the church baptistery.
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I am not trying to be a smart-alec with this one:

Catholic or Baptist? Sprinkling or Immersion?

In some churches it's little more than a bird bath. I'm a Baptist, and ours could arguably be considered a swimming pool for code purposes.
 
tallguy said:
I'm a Baptist, and ours could arguably be considered a swimming pool for code purposes.
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Same here and I think it would be considered an indoor pool.

Check the definition of 'pool' and specifically "Permanently Installed Swimming, Wading and Therapeutic Pools' in 680.2
 
The 2008 NEC has included the term "immersion" to the definition of pool in Article 680.

Here is the definition:

Pool. Manufactured or field-constructed equipment designed to contain water on a permanent or semipermanent basis and used for swimming, wading, immersion, or other therapeutic purposes.

I added the bold to show the new change. This change helps to clarify that the intent is that a baptismial font for immersion would be a pool.

Chris
 
To get back to the OP... Am I covering everything here??:

If it's a pool... 10' as per 680.22(A)(2) and must be GFCI within 20' as per 680.22(A)(5). Note 680.22(A)(6) though in regards to not taking this too literally -- i.e. you can have a recep. on the other side of a wall that is nevertheless within the radius.

If it's not a pool (nor a fountain, spa, etc.)... None of the circumstances listed in 210.8(B) apply, so... there must be something else that applies?:-? Otherwise, one could plop down a recep. right underneath it without GFCI. That doesn't pass the common sense test (then again, neither does a recep under a kitchen sink)...
 
Agreed, and I'm a Baptist too. Treat it just like a pool with the same rules. This reminds me of the preacher a few years back that got killed in the baptistry when someone handed him the grounded microphone. I think the heating elements for the baptistry were shorted to the tank. After that, I immediately double checked to see that my church's baptistry heaters were on a GFCI breaker. They weren't, so I changed that.
 
mdshunk said:
After that, I immediately double checked to see that my church's baptistry heaters were on a GFCI breaker. They weren't, so I changed that.
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I'm right in the middle of a long-overdue project of bringing my church's wiring up to code as well as some other non-code improvements, and I need to check on that as well. Only problem is the panel is Pushmatic so some modification might be needed.
 
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mdshunk said:
Agreed, and I'm a Baptist too. Treat it just like a pool with the same rules. This reminds me of the preacher a few years back that got killed in the baptistry when someone handed him the grounded microphone. I think the heating elements for the baptistry were shorted to the tank. After that, I immediately double checked to see that my church's baptistry heaters were on a GFCI breaker. They weren't, so I changed that.
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I remember that also. I think that was carried in newspapers across the country. However, I thought it was the microphone and audio equipment that was at fault. Seems like it wasn't grounded, or something like that.
 
tallguy said:
To get back to the OP... Am I covering everything here??:

If it's a pool... 10' as per 680.22(A)(2) and must be GFCI within 20' as per 680.22(A)(5). Note 680.22(A)(6) though in regards to not taking this too literally -- i.e. you can have a recep. on the other side of a wall that is nevertheless within the radius.

If it's not a pool (nor a fountain, spa, etc.)... None of the circumstances listed in 210.8(B) apply, so... there must be something else that applies?:-? Otherwise, one could plop down a recep. right underneath it without GFCI. That doesn't pass the common sense test (then again, neither does a recep under a kitchen sink)...
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IMO, if anyone steps in it, it is definately a permenant pool. (Since they are wadeing.)

At the very least, its got to be considered a fountain. See the definition of a fountain in the front of 680.

Steve
 
peter d said:
Only problem is the panel is Pushmatic so some modification might be needed.
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No sweat. Just stick a little two circuit box at the panel and put in a conventional GFCI breaker. I don't think there's a blessed thing wrong with Pushmatics, save for the fact that they don't make them anymore.
 
Based on the definition of pool in the 2008 NEC the baptistery would definitely be a pool. Therefore, 680.22(A)(2) would apply. Receptacles must be 10' from the inside wall.

Pool. Manufactured or field-constructed equipment designed to contain water on a permanent or semipermanent basis and used for swimming, wading, immersion, or other therapeutic purposes.
 
mdshunk said:
I don't think there's a blessed thing wrong with Pushmatics, save for the fact that they don't make them anymore.
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I agree, in fact, I accidently caused a short after stuffing a receptacle that I replaced back into a way undersized wiremold box, which was fed with ancient romex with an undersized ground wire. I tried to turn the circuit back on and the Pushmatic tripped immediately which proved to me that they are reliable OCPD's.

I was more commenting on the fact that a Pushmatic GFCI breaker probably doesn't even exist. And if it does, it's likely to be obscenely expensive.
 
peter d said:
I was more commenting on the fact that a Pushmatic GFCI breaker probably doesn't even exist. And if it does, it's likely to be obscenely expensive.
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They do, and I might even have an NOS one. When Goulds was handling the Pushmatic name, they made some GFCI Pushmatics. Far easier to just come off a regular breaker and set a little two circuit QO or CH box, and put in a more normal GFCI breaker. Probably much cheaper. I think a 2-circuit box is only about 11 dollars.
 
mdshunk said:
Far easier to just come off a regular breaker and set a little two circuit QO or CH box, and put in a more normal GFCI breaker. Probably much cheaper. I think a 2-circuit box is only about 11 dollars.
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Once I investigate to see if the baptistry even has a heater, that's probably the solution that I'll use. :)
 
tallguy said:
Ours doesn't... haven't tried it for myself yet though!
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I remember something happened to the thermostat in ours once, and when I went into the church, all the windows were fogged up and the whole building felt like a sauna. There were some pretty grumpy people that day. They ususally only turn it on several hours before a scheduled baptism, but for some reason it was on for several days that time.
 
steve66 said:
I remember that also. I think that was carried in newspapers across the country. However, I thought it was the microphone and audio equipment that was at fault. Seems like it wasn't grounded, or something like that.
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There was a lot of press early on (including an article [by others] that Mike sent out) that blamed the sound system, but the investigation showed that it was the water heater. There were a lot of replies to Mike's newsletter, and I'm pretty sure the investigation results were posted there. I don't recall seeing corrections in the popular press.

Martin
 
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