Receptacle outlets in closet

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roger

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Re: Receptacle outlets in closet

Tony,
There's very little in the code that prohibits adding extra protections to a system on an optional basis.
ah yes, but if an inspector says "no" when it is not required and given as an option then "no" is the word. If you read 210-12 (99) it says "receptacle outlets" and if an inspector interpreted it this to mean "receptacles" only, it would be hard to argue.

As ageneral statement, that which is not explicitly prohibited is allowed
I live this statement, only I don't need explicitly in the sentence.


There's a big difference between requirment to install something, and prohibition from installing something.
Here we must go back to the inspector saying "no" again :D

Roger

[ October 03, 2003, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 

tonyi

Senior Member
Re: Receptacle outlets in closet

Originally posted by roger:
if an inspector interpreted it this to mean "receptacles" only, it would be hard to argue.
Based on the way one reads the rest of the document, such an interpretation is completely inconsistant though. If someone wanted to GFCI protect every single 15/20A branch in a place (including smokes), it would be perfectly OK to do so from a code POV.

Unless there's local amendments explicitly prohibiting AFCI on smokes, I think this would ultimately have to be a winning appeal.

The wording in 2002 was carefully chosen in using the term "outlet" rather than "receptical". I have no problem with some inspector allowing something when good judgment, conditions, etc are applied, but I do have a problem with them arbitrarily prohibiting something because of (obviously) personal bias. It would be like some inspector disallowing backstabs because they personally don't like them. As much as I dislike backstabs, they're still legal.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Receptacle outlets in closet

Tony,
If someone wanted to GFCI protect every single 15/20A branch in a place (including smokes), it would be perfectly OK to do so from a code POV.
sorry, but from a code POV this is not true. You do have to leave the NEC and purchase or access NFPA 72 to find it. I don't have mine at home but I think it's in chapter 11.

The only way around this is if you know of a GFCI device (not to be confused with GFP) to protect the whole service.

Roger
 

efox

New member
Re: Receptacle outlets in closet

If you install a receptacle in a closet, if the plans show it as a closet, it is a closet. I personally feel this is not part of the bedroom, but a defined space. Some may say is it really a closet or are they going to use it for a computer station? I think the code language is what has to be looked at. In this issue its not bedroom, so NO GFCI nor AFCI in my opinion.
 

cwsnsons

Member
Re: Receptacle outlets in closet

Efox, At our last POCO/Tenn Dept of Commerce & Insurance (i.e. Inspectors) meeting in Dec of 2002, this issue of where in a dwelling AFCI protection of "outlets" will be required was discussed. The Assistant Director confirmed that a closet, no matter how big or what was in it was not part of the bedroom and therefore not required to be on AFCI IF there was a door or some other way of completely closing off the closet from said bedroom. IF, HOWEVER, there were only an archway, curtained or not, etc. to the closet, it would be considered to be part of the bedroom and, therefore, must be on AFCI. That would go for a master bathroom, too! No door? ...AFCI/GFCI combined!

By the way, we're still under the '99 NEC here with a few ammendments. The state is to adopt the "new" code "any day now".

[ October 08, 2003, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: cwsnsons ]
 
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