Receptacle under island overhang.

[JohnE]

Forgive me for asking, and I know we've almost beat it to death, but I have to ask: An island has a 12" overhang. A receptacle is installed under overhang (wiremold type installation) within 6" of outermost edge of overhang. Does this receptacle placement satisfy island receptacle requirement? I don't want to rehash old arguments, but I don't think this aspect has been discussed.

My first inclination was that I thought that it met the requirements, until rereading the article. The phrase "receptacles shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 6" from it's support base" in 210.52(C)(5) exception does seem to prohibit this installation for the required receptacle. (And possibly for any reeceptacle, but that's a different argument).

This may be obvious, but I'd like others opinions on it.

Thanks in advance.

As I'm typing, I'm thinking of other scenarios. Take the typical bookcase on the end of an island. Although it appears to be an overhang, is it? The supports are on 3 sides so countertop does not really extend at all from overhang. So would receptacle be allowed in back of bookcase even though it would be set back say 12" from edge of counter?

I look forward to the replies, as I'm making myself crazy right about now.

 

[dnem]

Re: Receptacle under island overhang.

I haven't heard alot of feed back from other inspectors of other municipalities so I'm not sure of what kinds of arguments can be made one way or the other. But I'll tell you how our department interprets this rule.

On every island or peninsula there is at least one side that doesn't have a large overhang. So there is one or more corners where a side with a 12"+ overhang meets a side with a 1 or 2" overhang. A receptacle tucked under the larger overhang but within a couple of inches of that corner will "be located where the countertop extends more than 6 in beyond its support base" if measured straight out from the plug to that large overhanging edge of the counter but will be less than 6 inches from the counter edge if measured on a right angle from the plug toward the corner.

I'm not sure if my words are describing clearly what I'm trying to say.

As long as there is a measurement in one direction that is less than 6 inches, we allow that plug to be counted as the required plug. If it is a wiremold, then at least one receptacle in the length must be within 6 inches of one of the edges.

You also questioned whether or not any plug could be put under a counter where every direction is more than 6 inches from the edge.

The phrase "receptacles shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 6" from it's support base" in 210.52(C)(5) exception does seem to prohibit this installation for the required receptacle. (And possibly for any reeceptacle, but that's a different argument).

"And possibly for any receptacle"
210.52(C)(5) ends with the words "shall not be considered as these required outlets" which shows that 210.52(C)(5) is talking about required receptacle outlets and not additional plugs up and beyond the code minimum required. The additional customer added plugs are not restricted by 210.52(C)(5)X

David

 

[JohnE]

Re: Receptacle under island overhang.

David, thanks for the response.

This next part was addressed extensively in another thread, and I agree with what you posted. For clarity, I addressed it as I did to try to keep away from it in this discussion.

You also questioned whether or not any plug could be put under a counter where every direction is more than 6 inches from the edge.

The phrase "receptacles shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 6" from it's support base" in 210.52(C)(5) exception does seem to prohibit this installation for the required receptacle. (And possibly for any reeceptacle, but that's a different argument).

"And possibly for any receptacle"
210.52(C)(5) ends with the words "shall not be considered as these required outlets" which shows that 210.52(C)(5) is talking about required receptacle outlets and not additional plugs up and beyond the code minimum required. The additional customer added plugs are not restricted by 210.52(C)(5)X

David

 

[electricmanscott]

John I would say technically this would not cover the required receptcle. I would also say that practically it is a good solution to the problem of the overhang. I tend to err on the practical side so for me it works.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Receptacle under island overhang.

The phrase "receptacles shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 6" from it's support base" in 210.52(C)(5) exception does seem to prohibit this installation for the required receptacle.

What I think you are talking about is a countertop that extends 12 inches from its base, but only extends 6 inches from where the receptacle is installed. I surmise that the wire mold is attached to the underside of the countertop, about midway from the base to the edge.

I would not accept this installation. I think it does not comply with the code, for the reason you cite above. Furthermore, I think it's not a good design, because when a person is sitting on a bar stool at the counter, the person's leg will be bumping against the plug.

 

[dnem]

Re: Receptacle under island overhang.

What I think you are talking about is a countertop that extends 12 inches from its base, but only extends 6 inches from where the receptacle is installed. I surmise that the wire mold is attached to the underside of the countertop, about midway from the base to the edge.

I would not accept this installation. I think it does not comply with the code, for the reason you cite above. Furthermore, I think it's not a good design, because when a person is sitting on a bar stool at the counter, the person's leg will be bumping against the plug.

I agree with Charlie about a midway from the base install.
My previous post on this thread assumes that you install the plug on the cabinet face no more than 12 inches down from the counter surface or install a plug or plugmold in the crotch between the underside of the countertop and the side of the cabinet.

For a crotch installation I would measure the 6 inches in multiple directions and pass it if one of the measurements was good.
But I know of inspectors in other jurisdictions that would fail it if the measurement straight out from the face is more than 6 inches.

David

 

[JohnE]

Charlie, that is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks, and I'm glad we agree on this one.

 

[romeo]

I agree with Charlie. I believe that the rule is to prohibit receptacles from being where a person is likely to sit.

 

[dlhoule]

I agree with Charlie. I believe that the rule is to prohibit receptacles from being where a person is likely to sit.

Me too. I am amazed. I never think of installing one where if something is plugged into it will obviously be in the way of people or animals.

 

[JohnE]

I agree with Charlie. I believe that the rule is to prohibit receptacles from being where a person is likely to sit.

I agree that the receptacle could not be where I described, but my thought (WAG as iwire might say) is that it is because of the length of cords on appliances, not because someone might sit there.

I'd venture a further guess that it was not the intent to prohibit the scenario I described, just a result of the exact wording used in writing the article.

These are my thoughts on what was written and why, not what I think should be code, FWIW.

I do agree that it is certainly not a good idea to put a receptacle where someone might sit.

I brought up the question because the center island in a new higher end house I'm wiring is curved. Both island and top. So island has overhang on each end and back that is curved, but is virtually impossible on one end to have a seat since it would be right in front of the refrigerator. I'm trying to come up with a code compliant solution, but I don't think the wiremold box is legal. (Nor aesthetically pleasing)

 

[charlie b]

So island has overhang on each end and back that is curved. . . .

Does it therefore have no overhang on the front? If so then at the edge between the side and the front, the curved overhang will curve in towards the edge. If you put a receptacle on the side, immediately adjacent to the front, will there still be 12 inches of overhang? Or will the overhang gradually decrease from 12 inches in the middle of the side, to 6 inches or less as you get closer to the front edge?

 

[romeo]

I think that if enough inspectors red tag these installations, the builders and vendors will design these islands so the receptacle can be installed without violating the NEC.

The islands I am seeing are like a piece furniture that some electrician is required to cut a box into. The design should include the receptacle placement and the box cut in at the time it is built.

 

[JohnE]

So island has overhang on each end and back that is curved. . . .

Does it therefore have no overhang on the front? If so then at the edge between the side and the front, the curved overhang will curve in towards the edge. If you put a receptacle on the side, immediately adjacent to the front, will there still be 12 inches of overhang? Or will the overhang gradually decrease from 12 inches in the middle of the side, to 6 inches or less as you get closer to the front edge?

Exactly. it will decrease, but I haven't yet measured how much. Probably to less than 6". I brought the question up not really for this installation, but as a general question, as I've heard of others using the "wiremold' solution. When considering it it struck me as illegal, so I wanted other feedback.

Thanks again,

John

p.s. Not thoughts on whether "bookcase" scenario in op constitutes an "overhang"?

 

[JohnE]

I think that if enough inspectors red tag these installations, the builders and vendors will design these islands so the receptacle can be installed without violating the NEC.

I agree. Inspectors who allow various "exception" to island rtequirements are not doing anyone a favor in the long run. Builders and kitchen designers will catch on real quick if everone enforced to the letter of the code.

 

[dlhoule]

I think that if enough inspectors red tag these installations, the builders and vendors will design these islands so the receptacle can be installed without violating the NEC.

The islands I am seeing are like a piece furniture that some electrician is required to cut a box into. The design should include the receptacle placement and the box cut in at the time it is built.

I would also agree with you, but unfortunately there will be a lot of innocent people paying a penalty of sorts in the mean time.