Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

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I was told yesterday that the 2003 NEC prohibits the installation of duplex receptacles above a grid ceiling. Is this correct? Where in the NEC is this located? For design, we normally place a receptacle above the grid ceiling for ceiling mounted projectors - but I was told that the receptacles have to be installed flush in the grid tile and not above- first I heard.
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

It is the power cord for the projector that is not allowed above the ceiling grid. Do a search of this forum and you will find a lot of debate on this subject.

Steve
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

The 2002 NEC changed 400.8 to make it clear that a portable cord is not allowed in any ceiling space, including a suspended ceiling. The intent is a portable cord is to be visible for its entire length. Caddy makes a t-bar hanger, just install the receptacle flush a ceiling tile facing the floor.
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

A good graphic from Mike Holt.

1019512720_2.gif



Roger
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

Tom would this also apply to condensate pumps for drip pans ? I have seen several cord and plug setups for these.
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

what should i use instead of an s/o cord & cord cap for a small hw htr mounted above grid ceiling in 1200 sf com'l bldg? where should recpt be mounted?

[ July 02, 2004, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: ronson ]
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

this is great. when hw htr needs to be replaced, plumber won't be able to just unplug hw htr.
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

2002 NEC 400.8 Uses Not Permitted
This subsection was revised to read:
Unless specifically permitted in 400.7 , flexible cords and cables cannot be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors or ceilings, or located above suspended or dropped ceilings.
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permitted in this Code

Intent: The change clarifies that flexible cords cannot be located above a suspended ceiling. However, wiring within a raised floor is permitted, because this space is not considered a concealed space.

Looks like the sentence Unless specifically permitted in 400.7(a) sorta opens up a major can of worms!

There are a lot of 10gal hot water heaters that come with cord and plug! so, 400.8 says no, unless specifically permitted in 400.7(a)...so the word cant becomes maybe and can under certain circumstances! If you couldnt under 400.8 then they wouldnt have put in the words Unless specifically permitted in 400.7(a)! now, to use cord and plug you need to meet 400.7(b).

IMO this art. has been beat to death, miss understood, and we all know it has truly been violated! IMO the intent was to keep extension cords from being run all over the ceiling grid(above it) and down from it! If plugging something in above a ceiling is a problem then wouldnt you also think that plugging something in under a raised floor would/could be a problem!you wouldnt be concealed under a raised floor but you would in a dropped ceiling?

[ July 05, 2004, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: cs409 ]
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

Am i reading something wrong ? 400.7 6 and 8 seem to make 400.8 a useless code.Seems that if it has a cord i could plug it in, because it might need servicing.Everything needs maintenance and repairs at some time
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

no, 400.7(a) doesn't kick 400.8 out the door, but 400.8 lets 400.7(a) sneak in the window, providing it meets only one item in 400.7(a)...but u must follow 400.7(b) if your using 3,6 and or 8 of 400.7(a) 400.7(b)Attachment Plugs. Where used as permitted in subsections (a)(3),(a)(6) and (a)(8), each flexible cord shall be equipped with an attachment plug and shall be energized from a receptacle outlet. as i stated earlier, 400.8 intent is for the stoppage of extension cords and dropping them out of the ceiling! IMO....
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

see (A good graphic from Mike Holt.) posted by Roger

So then where is the violation in example on left side ? there is a plug and receptacle.Does it not meet 400.7 a 8 and 400.7 b

[ July 05, 2004, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

look at the picture posted by Roger,,,,look at the code violation that isnt marked, indicated! if you read ALL of 400.8 you will see that 400.8(5) that is indicated as a violation is really ok because of 400.7(a)(6)and or 400.7(a)(8) and 400.7(b)...but the cord/plug under the floor is a clear violation of 400.8(2)...looks to me like the cord goes thur the floor to get to the outlet!
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

I don't see any wording in 400.7 that speciffically permits the use of cords above a ceilings. Unless the wording in 400.7 includes the word "ceiling" there is no specific permission for cords to be used in violation of 400.8(5).
Don
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

what article would you use to say we can't?
400.8 is erased by 400.7 if it meets one of them

[ July 05, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

Jim and Cs409, listen to Don and read the first paragraph of 400.8

Uses Not Permitted. Unless SPECIFICALLY PERMITTED in section 400.7, flexible cords and cables SHALL NOT
be used for the following;

Even though we can try to read around all the subsections, the truth is there is no specific wording in 400.7 (or in any article that I can think of) allowing what is prohibited in 400.8.

Bold Italicized wording added for emphasis. :)

Roger
 
Re: Receptacles Above Grid Ceiling?

so its cool under a floor even though it states in 400.8(5) its a no no(it makes no reference to raised, or other wise, just floor)! after all, 400.7(a) doesnt "specifically say floors". 400.8 needs some major cleaning up and more to the point as well as 400.7! i also dont know of any major store, business, etc that isnt in violation of this area of the code.....just look at all the stuff coming out of the ceiling!

imo.....cs
 
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