Receptacles Above Suspended Ceilings

[earshavewalls]

I believe that the 'wiring of fixtures' being allowed would be for the wiring of fixtures that did not require the cord to be above a suspended ceiling. You need to look at all articles that apply. Most codes state "unless not allowed by other sections" or "unless allowed by section.....".
It's easy to get the code to say what you want if you don't read the whole thing.

 

[roger]

Im gonna throw a bone out here.

400.8 Unless specifically permited in 400.7, flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:..........

400.7 Uses permited
(A) Uses. Flexible cords & cables shall be used only for the following:......
(2) Wiring of luminaires (fixtures)

And where is the wording that specifically allows a cord to connect a luminaire above a drop ceiling?

Now the way I see it, if an item being installed is on the list of 400.7 permitted uses, such as a light fixture, then 400.8 does not apply. So the fixture can be wired with a cord located above a dropped ceiling.

Well, if you could possibly convince an inspector that this was the case it would only apply to an incandescent luminaire because the cord to any electric discharge lighting must be visible for it's entire length and if it's concealed above a drop ceiling it does not meet this requirement.

See 410.30(C).

Roger

 

[tom baker]

Whats the purpose behind not allowing cords in a suspended ceiling? I don't see any problem unless it was a plenum ceiling.

Flexible cords dry out and the insulation cracks after 10 years or so. I have seen this many times.
Its a fire hazard.
The code rules in Art 400 have been tightened up over the last few cycles to clarify what a ceiling is, to keep the cords out.

 

[smithacetech]

400.7 specifically allows using flexible cords for the wiring of luminaires (fixtures). No It doesnt specifically allow the location of the wiring in a dropped ceiling but it is not restricted by 400.8 either.

as far 410.30(C) goes, if the tiles are solid & not an open "egg crate" style then the cord would not be "readily" visable, but it is still visable. I would think that term would be used the same as "accessible".

Either way it doesnt have to be a luminaire. What about the other items listed in 400.7?

 

[roger]

Okay, pick what ever item you like that is listed in 400.7 and let's assume it is in another room, can we run the cord through a hole in a wall, can we run the cord through the door or window, can we install the cord where it is subject to physical damage?

In your opinion, what line items in 400.8 can we ignore and what items do we have to adhere to?

Roger

 

[smithacetech]

I believe that the 'wiring of fixtures' being allowed would be for the wiring of fixtures that did not require the cord to be above a suspended ceiling. You need to look at all articles that apply. Most codes state "unless not allowed by other sections" or "unless allowed by section.....". It's easy to get the code to say what you want if you don't read the whole thing.

I think this kinda proves my point.

400.7 doesnt say you can use cords on these items unless they are used in these locations pointed out in 400.8
BUT,
400.8 does say Unless your using a cord on an item is listed in 400.7 then its not permitted.

 

[jim dungar]

Either way it doesnt have to be a luminaire. What about the other items listed in 400.7?

The argument is that none of the items in 400.7 contain a specific phrase similar to "above a suspended ceiling".

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The argument is that none of the items in 400.7 contain a specific phrase similar to "above a suspended ceiling".

Yet another good example of why this forum is so important. It sometimes takes the minds of many to get to a good result (although many have already been reached).
Jim's statement is very well written.

 

[smithacetech]

Okay, pick what ever item you like that is listed in 400.7 and let's assume it is in another room, can we run the cord through a hole in a wall, can we run the cord through the door or window, can we install the cord where it is subject to physical damage?

In your opinion, what line items in 400.8 can we ignore and what items do we have to adhere to?

Roger

Now that would just be silly..:smile: But, I didnt write 400.8

I dont know if all the items in 400.7 have additional requirements such as the luminaires in 410.30(C), but 410.30(C) seems to cover the hazards that 400.8 may have allowed.....hmmm coincidence, maybe, maybe not?

 

[nt233]

Easy answer here. Mice, or rats. I work in a lot of restaurants. See it all the time.

 

[mdpolan]

Receptacles Above Suspended Ceilings

Trever cited a common issue. A HVAC system located above a suspended ceiling. A condensate pump is required. They ALL come with a cord and plug. You CAN install a receptacle above a drop ceiling for MAINTENANCE or SERVICE use but not to plug a device such as the pump. Since the pump is UL Listed, you legally, can't cut the plug off and hardwire it either. I guess you will have to order one of those $400 pumps that can be hardwired. Thanks you knuckle heads at the code making committees!!!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

mdpolan,

Thanks you knuckle heads at the code making committees!!!

Just one question...have you ever submitted a proposal or comment? For the most part all the code making panels do is act on proposals and comments that are submitted to them. There are relatively few changes that are initiated by the CMPs.
Don

 

[benaround]

One more thing to throw in here, What size conductors are used in a

condensate pump factory cord?? maybe #16 or less, plus have you ever

noticed how warm it gets above some of these cielings,that can't be good for the cords either