RECEPTACLES, Ground up or ground down?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Smart $ said:
Unless directed otherwise, I install mine ground up.
  • ground up is the NEMA configuration
  • generally plugs are inserted with eyes looking down; ground pins are longer than power blades and therefore must mate with its receiver first; ground up makes it easier to mate pin to hole
  • experience has shown me cord plugs are retained better by receptacles installed ground up, with fewer bent and broken ground pins on the plugs
Click to expand...
I agree with points 1 and 3 completely, 2 some, and opposite the first line.

I try selling the idea of the entire room being split-wired, but I always split-wire the switched receptacle. I have never installed a switched receptacle upside-down, though. Hmmm...
 
Back in my 'service work days', if I really didn't wanna drive for the money, I would just ask if the ground was up, and tell them to flip that switch that they thought did nothing for the last 20 years - it amazes them.... For that matter it amazes me... :wink: But is a very subtle reminder for those in the know - other than insalling a placard saying, "switched recepical - that switch over there dufus."
 
Might be just me, but whenever I switch a receptacle I only half-switch it... How many lamps you going to plug in at one location? and I always switch the bottom half, this way the top half is easy access if a lamp is plugged in...
 
LarryFine said:
Nope, not just you:

That means the same thing.
Click to expand...

Dittos. Since becoming a "code junky" I wonder if its permissible to NOT split them since a switched outlet is, as I understand it, technically a "lighting outlet". Or do I have that wrong? If not, there would have to be an unswitched outlet nearby to avoid violating the 12' rule for receptacles.

Oh, and props to whomever suggested putting switched receptacles ground-the-other-way. I'll be "borrowing" that idea in the future.
 
tallgirl said:
Dittos. Since becoming a "code junky" I wonder if its permissible to NOT split them since a switched outlet is, as I understand it, technically a "lighting outlet". Or do I have that wrong? If not, there would have to be an unswitched outlet nearby to avoid violating the 12' rule for receptacles.

Oh, and props to whomever suggested putting switched receptacles ground-the-other-way. I'll be "borrowing" that idea in the future.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone could claim credit for the up-side down switched receptical - BUT you have a point on the "Lighting Outlet" although slightly misguided... ;) If it is a dry contact (regular) switch - NO PROBLEM! However, if you put a dimmer on it it is a listing problem, and it would become part of a "Lighting System" and would require something like this. (Add a w for the addresses below...)

ww.lutron.com/instructions/030825d.pdf
ww.lutron.com/instructions/030825d.pdf
(Ignore the fact that the outlets are shown ground up on those PDF's... You should aslo note that they are "switched outlets" :rolleyes: )

To do otherwise would violate 404.14(E)
 
tallgirl said:
Dittos. Since becoming a "code junky" I wonder if its permissible to NOT split them since a switched outlet is, as I understand it, technically a "lighting outlet". Or do I have that wrong? If not, there would have to be an unswitched outlet nearby to avoid violating the 12' rule for receptacles.

Oh, and props to whomever suggested putting switched receptacles ground-the-other-way. I'll be "borrowing" that idea in the future.
Click to expand...


I started doing it years ago so that way when the builder was doing a final walk through with a HO they were able to point out that,this is a switched receptacle for a lamp and not have to do a stupid service call to show the HO which receptacle is switched.

As far as if the entire receptacle is switched or 1/2 goes.If the entire receptacle was switched that would make it an allowed lighting outlet and not a receptacle outlet.By switching 1/2 you have both.JMHO :)
 
allenwayne said:
As far as if the entire receptacle is switched or 1/2 goes.If the entire receptacle was switched that would make it an allowed lighting outlet and not a receptacle outlet.By switching 1/2 you have both.JMHO :)
Click to expand...

210.70(A)(1)X
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

"one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch"
I don't think you can prove that a receptacle outlet is not a lighting outlet.

I've yet to inspect a house that has a switched receptacle that isn't split wired and I'd hate to encourage anybody to switch the whole plug because that would give the homeowner a crappy product. . But from a code violation point of view, I can't put my finger on a violation.

David
 
stickboy1375 said:
Might be just me, but whenever I switch a receptacle I only half-switch it... How many lamps you going to plug in at one location? and I always switch the bottom half, this way the top half is easy access if a lamp is plugged in...
Click to expand...

"always switch the bottom half, this way the top half is easy access if a lamp is plugged in"
Whenever I hit a split wired plug on an inspection they always switch the top half and that exact point you posted always crosses my mind. . Wouldn't you want the half that you more frequently have to interact with closer to you ? . The lamp plugged into the switched half will sit there plugged in for maybe even years. . So wouldn't you want the switched half on the bottom ? . But I always find the switched half on the top.

David
 
tallgirl said:
...I wonder if its permissible to NOT split them since a switched outlet is, as I understand it, technically a "lighting outlet". ...
Click to expand...

Note the following definition:
Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.
Click to expand...

By definition, I don't think a receptacle outlet can ever be a lighting outlet. The first exception to 210.70(A)(1) simply allows us to use a switched receptacle in lieu of a lighting outlet in certain locations. I think it is assumed that lamps will be plugged into some of the required convenience outlets. As long as receptacles are place at the required spacing, I don't think the code cares whether you switch half of a duplex, the whole duplex, or all of the receptacles in the room.
 
eprice said:
. . . I don't think a receptacle outlet can ever be a lighting outlet. . . . I don't think the code cares whether you switch half of a duplex, the whole duplex, or all of the receptacles in the room.
Click to expand...
I agree with both statements.

I seem to recall their being some debate over the first statement. If that is true, then let us please not divert this thread, tenuous as it already is, for a rehash of a previous debate.
 
eprice said:
The first exception to 210.70(A)(1) simply allows us to use a switched receptacle in lieu of a lighting outlet in certain locations.
Click to expand...

I agree, a switched receptacle can never be a lighting outlet but in can be installed in place of a lighting outlet.
 
iwire said:
I agree, a switched receptacle can never be a lighting outlet but in can be installed in place of a lighting outlet.
Click to expand...

Then I think it's a semantic argument if "in lieu of" means it is now a lighting outlet rather than a receptacle outlet.

I'm not going to wire an outlet that way just to find out because I agree with David's comment -- it would be an inferior configuration. It would be interesting to see how that would be decided if a ROP or whatever were submitted, in light of 210.52's exclusion of receptacles which are part of a lighting fixture --

This section provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20- ampere receptacle outlets. Receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire (lighting fixture) or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than 1.7 m (5 1⁄2 ft) above the floor.
Click to expand...

(And don't tell me the receptacle outlet isn't a part of the fixture. I know that. I'm just saying ...)
 
tallgirl said:
Then I think it's a semantic argument if "in lieu of" means it is now a lighting outlet rather than a receptacle outlet.
Click to expand...

Not much of an argument, "in Lieu of" means in place of, it can not be interpreted as 'it becomes"

If your vett breaks down and you take a cab to to work in lieu of the vette the cab does not become a vett.

I agree with David's comment -- it would be an inferior configuration.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with it meeting the NEC or not.

The NEC is not a design manual.

As you should well be aware of the NEC requirements may not provide an installation that is convenient.
 
ibew441dc said:
In a dwelling unit it is easy to identify the switched receptacle by installing it opposite of the rest in the room.

example: all normal receptacles with ground down and the switched with it up




Ibew441dc
Click to expand...


That must look really good in a finished house...:) You have got to be kidding...half switch them all and you wont have any problems... :)
 
Last edited:
stickboy1375 said:
Might be just me, but whenever I switch a receptacle I only half-switch it... How many lamps you going to plug in at one location? and I always switch the bottom half, this way the top half is easy access if a lamp is plugged in...
Click to expand...

I do the same by switching the bottom half. We actually learned this way back in trade school. The thinking behind it is you have the lamp plugged into the bottom half and the top remains open for access to the regularly used plug. If you switch the top half, the lamp cord hangs down in front of the bottom half of the recpetacle and is in the way when plugging and unplugging a cord.
 
dnem said:
"always switch the bottom half, this way the top half is easy access if a lamp is plugged in"
Whenever I hit a split wired plug on an inspection they always switch the top half and that exact point you posted always crosses my mind. . Wouldn't you want the half that you more frequently have to interact with closer to you ? . The lamp plugged into the switched half will sit there plugged in for maybe even years. . So wouldn't you want the switched half on the bottom ? . But I always find the switched half on the top.

David
Click to expand...


I use common sense.....:)
 
So far I have closed and opened this thread, now I will close it again.

If anyone wants to research the up or down debate please feel free to use the search function.

Literally 1000s of posts about this very subject.

Bob
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top