Receptacles in Doctor's Office
- Thread starter sadegh
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Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Short answer...no.
Comment: I have seen HG receptacles, and I have seen tamper-resistant receptacles, but I dont' believe I have ever seen HG receptacle that were tamper resistant.
Is there such a beast?
Usually in a Dr's office we use the cheapest thing available because he has beat every penny of profit out of 3 contractors bidding, and we know that we will have to wait and wait to get paid.
Short answer...no.
Comment: I have seen HG receptacles, and I have seen tamper-resistant receptacles, but I dont' believe I have ever seen HG receptacle that were tamper resistant.
Is there such a beast?
Usually in a Dr's office we use the cheapest thing available because he has beat every penny of profit out of 3 contractors bidding, and we know that we will have to wait and wait to get paid.
Tom.Margillo
Member
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
You might want to check with whoever is inspecting the job. I've done doctors offices where the local inspector requested HG recepticles in the exam rooms, and as you know sometimes you do the little things they want to keep them haapy.
You might want to check with whoever is inspecting the job. I've done doctors offices where the local inspector requested HG recepticles in the exam rooms, and as you know sometimes you do the little things they want to keep them haapy.
kevinware
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Sadegh,
I am only an apprentice but most of the work I do is done in a Health care facility. Reading the definitions in 517.2, (Patient care area): is defined as "any portion of a health care facility wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated" (see also General Care Area).
My understanding of your question is this: 517.10(A) states Part II of article 517 shall apply to patient care areas of all health care facilities. 517.18 requires "Hospital Grade" receptacles where any patient care is given only, (General or critical) but no "Hospital Grade" or tamper resistant receptacles are required in a waiting room and the like. With that said, 517.18(C) tell me that if the Dr. Office that you are designing is a Pediatric Location then it shall be required to have tamper resistant receptacles in the waiting room. This is just my understanding, so to answer your question with the short answer, where patient care is given I would use "Hospital grade receptacles" anywhere patient care is given.
Sadegh,
I am only an apprentice but most of the work I do is done in a Health care facility. Reading the definitions in 517.2, (Patient care area): is defined as "any portion of a health care facility wherein patients are intended to be examined or treated" (see also General Care Area).
My understanding of your question is this: 517.10(A) states Part II of article 517 shall apply to patient care areas of all health care facilities. 517.18 requires "Hospital Grade" receptacles where any patient care is given only, (General or critical) but no "Hospital Grade" or tamper resistant receptacles are required in a waiting room and the like. With that said, 517.18(C) tell me that if the Dr. Office that you are designing is a Pediatric Location then it shall be required to have tamper resistant receptacles in the waiting room. This is just my understanding, so to answer your question with the short answer, where patient care is given I would use "Hospital grade receptacles" anywhere patient care is given.
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
IMO, 517.18(B) would not apply since a doctors office does not have a "patient bed location". The definition of a patient bed location is for inpatient sleeping, or a table used for critical care.
Steve
IMO, 517.18(B) would not apply since a doctors office does not have a "patient bed location". The definition of a patient bed location is for inpatient sleeping, or a table used for critical care.
Steve
kevinware
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Both 517.18(B) and 517.19(B) cover patient bed areas, but the two things both 517.18 and 517.19 have in common are that in both areas patient care is being given and hospital grade receptacles are required. IMO the rendering of patient care is the defining factor on what type of recptacle is used. Of course the AHJ will have the final say so.........
Both 517.18(B) and 517.19(B) cover patient bed areas, but the two things both 517.18 and 517.19 have in common are that in both areas patient care is being given and hospital grade receptacles are required. IMO the rendering of patient care is the defining factor on what type of recptacle is used. Of course the AHJ will have the final say so.........
rick hart
Senior Member
- Location
- Dallas Texas
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
HG receptacles can be present wherever a patient is being cared for. That includes the laboratory that tests the blood and other disgusting things but, no patients are within sight. If other receptacles are installed, periodic testing and documentation is required. That gets expensive and makes installing HG everywhere economical. Don't confuse the requirements for bedside patient care receptacles with HG.
HG receptacles are not magic but are, for lack of a better description, high abuse. I would not think that if an HG was made tamper proof that it could be used in a patient care location.
HG receptacles can be present wherever a patient is being cared for. That includes the laboratory that tests the blood and other disgusting things but, no patients are within sight. If other receptacles are installed, periodic testing and documentation is required. That gets expensive and makes installing HG everywhere economical. Don't confuse the requirements for bedside patient care receptacles with HG.
HG receptacles are not magic but are, for lack of a better description, high abuse. I would not think that if an HG was made tamper proof that it could be used in a patient care location.
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Guesseral, you asked me about wiring methods. Let me expand my original question
Does doctor's office qualify as "Health Care Facility", if it does, then I have to follow NEC article 517. The definition of Health Care Facility (NEC 517.2) includes medical office and I am assuming doctor's office qualifies as such.
Guesseral, you asked me about wiring methods. Let me expand my original question
Does doctor's office qualify as "Health Care Facility", if it does, then I have to follow NEC article 517. The definition of Health Care Facility (NEC 517.2) includes medical office and I am assuming doctor's office qualifies as such.
hbiss
EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
- Location
- Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
- Occupation
- EC
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
I asked the same question a few weeks ago regarding a doctor's office he just finished in part of his residence. Everybody here as well as I agreed that that part of the house is a health care facility and the patient care or exam rooms had to comply with 517. Not only are hospital grade receptacles required but HCF wiring to them as well.
-Hal
I asked the same question a few weeks ago regarding a doctor's office he just finished in part of his residence. Everybody here as well as I agreed that that part of the house is a health care facility and the patient care or exam rooms had to comply with 517. Not only are hospital grade receptacles required but HCF wiring to them as well.
-Hal
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Thats why I asked your wiring method. A doctors office is (in my opinion) considered a health care facility. The exam rooms will require the redundant grounding system from 517.13 A & B. I do not agree that they would require HG rec. But then again I have seen doctor's offices wired in romex, which would be fine for everywhere except the exam rooms!
Thats why I asked your wiring method. A doctors office is (in my opinion) considered a health care facility. The exam rooms will require the redundant grounding system from 517.13 A & B. I do not agree that they would require HG rec. But then again I have seen doctor's offices wired in romex, which would be fine for everywhere except the exam rooms!
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
kevinware:
If you look at the definition of "patient bed location" at the begining of 517, I think that makes it clear 517.18(B) doesn't apply.
Steve
kevinware:
If you look at the definition of "patient bed location" at the begining of 517, I think that makes it clear 517.18(B) doesn't apply.
I can't argue with that, but if the AHJ requires them, they would be mistaken.
Steve
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Hubbell makes Hospital Grade Tamper resistant receptacles also.
Hubbell makes Hospital Grade Tamper resistant receptacles also.
marinesgt0411
Senior Member
- Location
- Naples,FL 34110-9285
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
short and to the point no. best bet ask your inspector he has the final say so if he want HG he will get it or building wont get CO or final
short and to the point no. best bet ask your inspector he has the final say so if he want HG he will get it or building wont get CO or final
kevinware
Senior Member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Steve66,
I apologize for sounding confusing, but I am not saying 517.18(B) applies to this situation. What I am saying is that section 517.18 (General Care Areas) and 517.19 (Critical Care Areas) both apply to an area in a health care facility where patient care is rendered and they both shall have listed HG receptacles. Looking at the definition of "Patient Care Area" in 517.2 and looking at the last paragraph which states "The Governing body of the facility designates these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated and with the following definitions of the areas classification"
The first classification is for:
General Care Areas, which states Patient bedrooms, examining room,treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as nurse call system, electrical beds, examining lamps, telephone, and entertainment devices. Reading all of this leads me to believe that anywhere in a health care facility where patient care is rendered shall require HG receptacles, "patient care" being the key word. Patient care is rendered in a examining room wether that room is in a hospital or in the Doctors's own home. That is just my opinion. If I am just totally misunderstanding please correct me.
Steve66,
I apologize for sounding confusing, but I am not saying 517.18(B) applies to this situation. What I am saying is that section 517.18 (General Care Areas) and 517.19 (Critical Care Areas) both apply to an area in a health care facility where patient care is rendered and they both shall have listed HG receptacles. Looking at the definition of "Patient Care Area" in 517.2 and looking at the last paragraph which states "The Governing body of the facility designates these areas in accordance with the type of patient care anticipated and with the following definitions of the areas classification"
The first classification is for:
General Care Areas, which states Patient bedrooms, examining room,treatment rooms, clinics, and similar areas in which it is intended that the patient will come in contact with ordinary appliances such as nurse call system, electrical beds, examining lamps, telephone, and entertainment devices. Reading all of this leads me to believe that anywhere in a health care facility where patient care is rendered shall require HG receptacles, "patient care" being the key word. Patient care is rendered in a examining room wether that room is in a hospital or in the Doctors's own home. That is just my opinion. If I am just totally misunderstanding please correct me.
Re: Receptacles in Doctor's Office
Kevinware
Yes 517.18 & 517.19 are types of patient care areas, but the requirement for HG rec are listed under the sub sections for patient bed locations, the definition of a patient bed location is:
The location of an inpatient sleeping bed; or the bed or procedure table used in a critical patient care area.
The locations in a doctors office are (should) not be sleeping or critical patient care areas. If they are intended for these uses then HG rec would be required, but in normal circumstances they would not be.
But the examination rooms in a doctors office would be a patient care area (listed def health care facilities) and would require the wiring methods listed in 517.13 A & B. Altho the remainder of the office would not.
Break the sections down into what they apply to, don't try to encompass everything into the same category. Does this help?
Kevinware
Yes 517.18 & 517.19 are types of patient care areas, but the requirement for HG rec are listed under the sub sections for patient bed locations, the definition of a patient bed location is:
The location of an inpatient sleeping bed; or the bed or procedure table used in a critical patient care area.
The locations in a doctors office are (should) not be sleeping or critical patient care areas. If they are intended for these uses then HG rec would be required, but in normal circumstances they would not be.
But the examination rooms in a doctors office would be a patient care area (listed def health care facilities) and would require the wiring methods listed in 517.13 A & B. Altho the remainder of the office would not.
Break the sections down into what they apply to, don't try to encompass everything into the same category. Does this help?
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