Receptacles installed FACE UP

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I was at a resturant today and i saw some receptacles installed 'face up', not necessarily a conter top but it was a 'similar surfaces. I thought this was a code violation, but when i went to read it 'again' 2005 NEC 406.4(E) apparently this is only for Dwelling Units. Anyone know why they allow this for commercial,???? this just seems like a 'very bad' design, even if it is legal.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Its permitted in dwelling units as well, just not counter tops.
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Art. 406.4 (E) may argue this point. Title is Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces in Dwellings.

(E) Receptacles in Countertops and Similar Work Surfaces in Dwelling Units. Receptacles shall not be installed in a face-up position in countertops or similar work surfaces.
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So what is a similar work surface--a desk? I don't have the answer but it appears to be more than countertops.
 
Places where I've installed receps face up:
Fireplace mantles.
Book shelves
Entertainment centers
Storage cabinets.
Built-in ironing boards.
Computer desks.
Telecom closets.
Et al.
 
480sparky said:
Places where I've installed receps face up:
Fireplace mantles.
Book shelves
Entertainment centers
Storage cabinets.
Built-in ironing boards.
Computer desks.
Telecom closets.
Et al.
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Places where I have installed receptacles face up : Floor receptacles. And I don't even like those.:grin:
 
electricmanscott said:
What was this so called "simillar surface" and what is the hazard associated with it?
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well its like a 'banister' type that is run all the way down at each booth. . you sit at a booth that is just beside you face up is the receptacles. the hazard i see is some dust and dirt is more prone to getting in them and shorting them out (there is no protective cover), or when the waitresses clean and wipe down the surface and its wet, or some people not paying attention and sit a drink on it..

oh well, just a design prefrence, this place was remodled 2 years ago, looks nice just those receptacles seem badly placed.
 
Are the grounds on the right or left?? :grin:

(Sorry, I should probably be banished for life for asking that.)

If they are located where people can sit their drinks, I think they are a violation.

Steve
 
steve66 said:
Are the grounds on the right or left?? :grin:

(Sorry, I should probably be banished for life for asking that.)

If they are located where people can sit their drinks, I think they are a violation.

Steve
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Darn.. there goes floor recepts. :mad:

I can see someone setting a cup of Joe on an end table.....
 
480sparky said:
Darn.. there goes floor recepts. :mad:

I can see someone setting a cup of Joe on an end table.....
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Thats not what I'm saying (or at least its not what I meant to say). But if it's a flat surface in a resturaunt, and about table height, and large enough to sit a drink on, then it sounds like a "similar surface" to me.
 
I know what you're saying.

I can just see someone writing a proposal banning all face-up receps because there's always the possibility of liquids getting in.

After all, have you ever had your floors shampood?
 
steve66 said:
Thats not what I'm saying (or at least its not what I meant to say). But if it's a flat surface in a resturaunt, and about table height, and large enough to sit a drink on, then it sounds like a "similar surface" to me.
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But 406.4(E) only applys to dwelling units, so even if it is a "similar surface" to a countertop, if it is in a resturaunt this section dosen't apply.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
But 406.4(E) only applys to dwelling units, so even if it is a "similar surface" to a countertop, if it is in a resturaunt this section dosen't apply.

Chris
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Isn't that comical. Why would a commercial kitchen be exempt from a face up recep. on the counter. Probably because everyone in the industry knows better than to do it. :grin:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Isn't that comical. Why would a commercial kitchen be exempt from a face up recep. on the counter. Probably because everyone in the industry knows better than to do it. :grin:
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It isn't comical at all.

We all know how much safer electricity is in a commercial setting. How many AFCIs do you see in a grocery store, school or gas station?
 
steve66 said:
Are the grounds on the right or left?? :grin:

(Sorry, I should probably be banished for life for asking that.)

If they are located where people can sit their drinks, I think they are a violation.

Steve
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New code you're basing this on? :-?

To me this is much ado about nothing.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Isn't that comical. Why would a commercial kitchen be exempt from a face up recep. on the counter. Probably because everyone in the industry knows better than to do it. :grin:
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I agree this is comical, Looking at this installation, I just cant see why would anyone (Engineers) want to design a receptacles in this fashion in a resturant where someone sits and its just a little higher than the table, so even though its not likely to have drinks on it, it still can get all kinds of crap down in it.
 
Inside of dwellings, I have stuck many many face up receptacle outlets inside On-Q structured wiring panels I put in, because that is where the On-Q company installs a knock out for that purpose. At the time of the first one I went on a code search for a code that would not allow it, but found none.
 
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