An inspector red flagged a job today because he said the can lights we used were not "leak rated". I asked him if he was talking about IC/ NON-IC lights and he said no, it had to do with an "energy code". Does anyone know what a "leak rating" is? He also said that he thought the lights had to be 6" from any combustable material and he would have to get back with me on that one, but 410.66(A)(1) & (2) require 1/2" for non IC type and no clearence for IC type. Is there something in the energy code that states otherwise? Thank-you.
Recessed can lights
- Thread starter hotlegs
- Start date
- Status
zweiglesparky
Member
Re: Recessed can lights
you must have the same inspector that I have. My statement to inspectors is if were wrong show us in the nec or ul codes
you must have the same inspector that I have. My statement to inspectors is if were wrong show us in the nec or ul codes
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Recessed can lights
The cans the inspector is requiring are called "air tight". They have no holes or openings in them like a regular can. They have very low air leakage or "leak rating" as you say through them.
The energy codes vary state by state. Some states have them, some don't. Just like smoke detector requirements (not found in the NEC), the requirement to use airtight cans can be enforced by an electrical inspector.
Practically speaking, why would you use non-airtight cans anyway? To save a few nickels? You just end up wasting the customers money from energy loss. Putting in a recessed light is like cutting a huge hole into the attic. So a big "thumbs up" to this inspector for that call.
zweiglesparky, as I said the inspector can enforce building codes in addition to the NEC. By the way, what the heck are "UL codes" ?
[ August 12, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
The cans the inspector is requiring are called "air tight". They have no holes or openings in them like a regular can. They have very low air leakage or "leak rating" as you say through them.
The energy codes vary state by state. Some states have them, some don't. Just like smoke detector requirements (not found in the NEC), the requirement to use airtight cans can be enforced by an electrical inspector.
Practically speaking, why would you use non-airtight cans anyway? To save a few nickels? You just end up wasting the customers money from energy loss. Putting in a recessed light is like cutting a huge hole into the attic. So a big "thumbs up" to this inspector for that call.
zweiglesparky, as I said the inspector can enforce building codes in addition to the NEC. By the way, what the heck are "UL codes" ?
[ August 12, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: Recessed can lights
Sounds to me like you are in a state or municipality that has adopted some sort of energy code (ie: California, Wisconsin.) As I don't know where you live, I couldn't tell you what that code says. But, if it exists, it will likely be a state level document, it will be fully enforceable by the AHJ (either electrical, building inspector or both) and you will have to live by it. Remember, the NEC isn't the only code we have to comply with. It's also worth noting that many energy codes have several sections directly related to the electrical trade (covering issues as varied as sealing exterior wall penetrations, energy efficiency of lighting, lighting control requirements, air tightness of recessed fixtures...) I'd highly recommend getting your hands on a copy of that energy code.
Sounds to me like you are in a state or municipality that has adopted some sort of energy code (ie: California, Wisconsin.) As I don't know where you live, I couldn't tell you what that code says. But, if it exists, it will likely be a state level document, it will be fully enforceable by the AHJ (either electrical, building inspector or both) and you will have to live by it. Remember, the NEC isn't the only code we have to comply with. It's also worth noting that many energy codes have several sections directly related to the electrical trade (covering issues as varied as sealing exterior wall penetrations, energy efficiency of lighting, lighting control requirements, air tightness of recessed fixtures...) I'd highly recommend getting your hands on a copy of that energy code.
krmelectricbwm
Member
Re: Recessed can lights
Hotlegs,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Peter is right about the "air-tight" rating. Not a NEC thing YET, but locally they have started to enforce this requirement. FYI, so far in our area they only require air-tight fixtures in ceilings that are directly below the attic or roof structure such as in the upper floor, a front porch, or outside soffit. I had two jobs in the past week that required these types of fixtures. On a positive note, check with your AHJ, because some fixtures can be "made" air-tight with an "air-tight trim. Good luck!!!
Hotlegs,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Peter is right about the "air-tight" rating. Not a NEC thing YET, but locally they have started to enforce this requirement. FYI, so far in our area they only require air-tight fixtures in ceilings that are directly below the attic or roof structure such as in the upper floor, a front porch, or outside soffit. I had two jobs in the past week that required these types of fixtures. On a positive note, check with your AHJ, because some fixtures can be "made" air-tight with an "air-tight trim. Good luck!!!
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Recessed can lights
In addition to what Peter D mentioned, the hi-hat trims (or baffles as some call them) should come with gaskets to prevent air leakage into the attic. I recently used Halo 5" IC/air tight fixtures and the gaskets were packed inside the wiring compartment. Other manufacturers, like Juno, have them attached to the trims.
New York and New Jersey have adopted the energy code and require air tight fixtures in any ceiling that has insulation and an attic above it. I can't site the section of the code but it's in there.
In addition to what Peter D mentioned, the hi-hat trims (or baffles as some call them) should come with gaskets to prevent air leakage into the attic. I recently used Halo 5" IC/air tight fixtures and the gaskets were packed inside the wiring compartment. Other manufacturers, like Juno, have them attached to the trims.
New York and New Jersey have adopted the energy code and require air tight fixtures in any ceiling that has insulation and an attic above it. I can't site the section of the code but it's in there.
physis
Senior Member
Re: Recessed can lights
I'm in California, if there's a new regulation that can be imposed I'm sure our enforcment autorities are kicking themselves for not being first. Especially energy related. This is the first I've heard of it. I'll be asking my AHJ's about it.
You said that these "leak rated" cans must be 6" from combustable material? At least where I'm at, the applications where it sounds like these would be required is the same as where IC is required. Am I going to have to start boxing all light cans soon?
I'm in California, if there's a new regulation that can be imposed I'm sure our enforcment autorities are kicking themselves for not being first. Especially energy related. This is the first I've heard of it. I'll be asking my AHJ's about it.
You said that these "leak rated" cans must be 6" from combustable material? At least where I'm at, the applications where it sounds like these would be required is the same as where IC is required. Am I going to have to start boxing all light cans soon?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Recessed can lights
physis, the 6" sounds pretty wacky to me too. All the air tight cans that I have seen and use (Halo mostly) are IC rated so the clearance is a non-issue.
As I said, I'm glad the inspector is enforcing this rule but I missed the 6" part. In that case, I don't think he has a clue.
physis, the 6" sounds pretty wacky to me too. All the air tight cans that I have seen and use (Halo mostly) are IC rated so the clearance is a non-issue.
As I said, I'm glad the inspector is enforcing this rule but I missed the 6" part. In that case, I don't think he has a clue.
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Recessed can lights
Physis
Love your joke in the first paragraph. We California inspectors pride ourselves on being regulaton wacky here. We live to enforce crazy state energy regs
Physis
Love your joke in the first paragraph. We California inspectors pride ourselves on being regulaton wacky here. We live to enforce crazy state energy regs
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Recessed can lights
On a foot note. We have a builder that specs progress cans.So there is a sticker on them that says not IC rated unless used with rated trims or at least something like that word for word.On rough if not there on the can all is good remove the sticker and we pass,I`m not kidding.The AHJ know`s what it says but if we are 1 1/8 from the edge of a stud or furring strip $30 gone to red tag......
On a foot note. We have a builder that specs progress cans.So there is a sticker on them that says not IC rated unless used with rated trims or at least something like that word for word.On rough if not there on the can all is good remove the sticker and we pass,I`m not kidding.The AHJ know`s what it says but if we are 1 1/8 from the edge of a stud or furring strip $30 gone to red tag......
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Recessed can lights
IC rated recessed lights are UL listed for direct contact with combustible material. The inspector is making up his own code.
The requirement for air-tight housing is becoming more common. With some manufactures special housings are required and others meet the requirement with special trims.
physis,
Get ready for some big changes of the residential lighting energy requirements in California.
California Title 24 Residential Lighting Standards
IC rated recessed lights are UL listed for direct contact with combustible material. The inspector is making up his own code.
The requirement for air-tight housing is becoming more common. With some manufactures special housings are required and others meet the requirement with special trims.
physis,
Get ready for some big changes of the residential lighting energy requirements in California.
California Title 24 Residential Lighting Standards
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Recessed can lights
Only what's on the link that Curt posted. All it says is "...must be certified airtight"
The picture of the luminaire is from Progress lighting, you might try their website for info.
Here the address for the link Curt Sent:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005_standards/early_compliance/2004-06-03_LIGHTING_STNDS.PDF
It's down about page 13.
Other than that we'll have to wait until the actual reg's are published.
Note: what is in the link are voluntary early compliance reg's which a builder can use and I assume get energy credits to trade elswhere in the design.
Only what's on the link that Curt posted. All it says is "...must be certified airtight"
The picture of the luminaire is from Progress lighting, you might try their website for info.
Here the address for the link Curt Sent:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005_standards/early_compliance/2004-06-03_LIGHTING_STNDS.PDF
It's down about page 13.
Other than that we'll have to wait until the actual reg's are published.
Note: what is in the link are voluntary early compliance reg's which a builder can use and I assume get energy credits to trade elswhere in the design.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Recessed can lights
Physis do you have Adobe Acrobat reader installed as you will need this to view it and if you are on a dial up connection it might take a few to down load. The link that Curt provided goes straight to the PDF document.
Physis do you have Adobe Acrobat reader installed as you will need this to view it and if you are on a dial up connection it might take a few to down load. The link that Curt provided goes straight to the PDF document.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Recessed can lights
YUK'!
YUK'!
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Recessed can lights
Wayne, was that in response to CA's new lighting requirements? If so I agree.
Wayne, was that in response to CA's new lighting requirements? If so I agree.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Recessed can lights
Nope it was to what Physis said he had for ISP.
But now that you mentioned it I guess it would fit there too. :roll:
Nope it was to what Physis said he had for ISP.
But now that you mentioned it I guess it would fit there too. :roll:
- Status