Recipe for Death:

[physis]

Re: Recipe for Death:

This is only my understanding and if there are any shortcomings in the way I see it I want to be corrected so I don't walk around thinking I know what I'm talking about if I don't.

Four things:

Don, I haven't heard of the open neutral protection before. With any GFCI, as far as I know, if for any reason at any time there is 5 or 10 milliamps difference between the hot and the neutral it will trip. So it looks to be a redundance. I don't have any kind of a problem with that. I just haven't heard about it yet.

Templtl, I don't think rattus' intention is to take his GFI and jump into a puddle with it because he knows there's nothing to worry about. I think he's using it to add the protection that GFI's provide. That's what there for.

And Rattus, the way they work is simpler than you might think. The hot and neutral both pass through a toroidial coil(s). The coil(s) leads go to an amplifier. It takes very little current difference in the hot and neutral to excite the amplifier.

I'm having a hard time seeing what rattus put together as such a safty hazard. Except that there's something else you can have. Admittedly, the extra open neutral protection couldn't hurt.

Editted

[ December 04, 2004, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Recipe for Death:

Originally posted by physis:
I haven't heard of the open neutral protection before. With any GFCI, as far as I know, if for any reason at any time there is 5 or 10 milliamps difference between the hot and the neutral it will trip. So it looks to be a redundance.

Don is talking about an open Neutral on the supply side of the GFCI. With an open neutral on the supply side the GFCI will not trip if a ground fault happens on the load side.

This is a real possibility with a portable cord as Rattus admits.

Originally posted by physis:
I'm having a hard time seeing what rattus put together as such a safty hazard.

1)The open neutral issue is a real hazard.

2)What kind of box is the GFCI mounted in?

Very unlikely he is using an FS style box, or has a proper strain relief, or a molded on cord cap, etc.

3)Is a GFCI made for stationery wall mounting going to put up with portable abuse?

I will admit I am a little bias as the jobs I work on would never tolerate home made equipment.

Not extension cords and certainly not GFCI cord sets. (OSHA)

Add the fact that you can get a UL listed GFCI plug adapter for less than $20 and I see little reason to use a home made version that would never pass inspection.

Bob

 

[physis]

Re: Recipe for Death:

Don is talking about an open Neutral on the supply side of the GFCI. With an open neutral on the supply side the GFCI will not trip if a ground fault happens on the load side.

Ok, right. That got by me.

Add the fact that you can get a UL listed GFCI plug adapter for less than $20 and I see little reason to use a home made version that would never pass inspection.

And I can't argue with that either.

 

[physis]

Re: Recipe for Death:

But because there are now open neutral protected GFI's doesn't make all the unneutral protected ones hazardous either though.

 

[rattus]

Re: Recipe for Death:

As I understand it, the GFCI must have power applied to the line side to trip the breaker if a fault occurs on the load side. To provide open neutral protection, a holding relay, which must be manually latched whenever it is powered on, unlatches when either the hot or the neutral opens.

I really made this thing, with strain relief and molded plug in a steel box, to provide two outlets for an extension cord. I just happened to have this GFCI lying around. I seldom use it for GF protection, and if I do, I will check continuity on all wires. At this moment, it is used to power a AA battery charger!

As I have said, if I used one daily, I would buy the real thing. Now, I am not rich, and I am not poor, but I am cheap!

This idle comment of mine has has brought enlightenment to me and a couple of others as well I hope.

 

[midget]

Re: Recipe for Death:

Originally posted by iwire:

Very unlikely he is using an FS style box, or has a proper strain relief, or a molded on cord cap, etc.

What's an FS style box?

 

[iwire]

Re: Recipe for Death:

Originally posted by midget:
What's an FS style box?

FS = Ferris Shallow

FD = Ferris Deep

FS and FD boxes are made of heavy wall cast steel and do not have knock outs. You order them with the threaded hubs you need.

Typical boxes like 4" squares, handy boxes, etc are only listed for use mounted on a surface, not for portable use on the end of a cord.

When you use a box with knock outs on the end of a rubber cord the knock outs will often fall out and the lock nut holding the cord connector in will loosen up.

The only box OSHA will accept (normally) at the end of a cord is an FS or FD box listed for 'pendent' use.

You would order a single gang FS or FD box with one 1/2" or 3/4" threaded hub at one end of the box for a cord pendent.

[ December 06, 2004, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[charlie]

Re: Recipe for Death:

 

[iwire]

Re: Recipe for Death:

Yes, I am aware of the PVC ones, however we were talking about suitable boxes for the end of cords.

The PVC "F" style box is not acceptable for use on the end of a cord.

The PVC ones must be mounted to the surface.

For that mater a standard "WP Bell Box" is F style also, it has the same device mounting / cover mounting locations.

Again IMO not suitable for the end of a cord.

Bob

 

[charlie]

Re: Recipe for Death:

I agree, Bob. We were typing at the same time and I was just answering his question, "What's an FS style box?" I was just too lazy to go back and delete my response at that time of the morning.

 

[brentp]

Re: Recipe for Death:

iwire,

Where can I find more info on 'pendant' boxes? Any chance you have a web link I can read up on?

I've tried searching the web with no luck.

Thanks
Brent