Recommended testers for apprentice?

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jrannis said:
If you understand what this post is saying,
I doubt you will need anything more than a wiggy solenoid type tester at this point. It is the most reliable tester you can have for basic troublshooting and non specific field work.
I have thousands of dollars worth of meters and test equipment and I will always pick up the wiggy first.
They seem to make one with a small open CT branch circuit tester on some models. for current readings, I use a Fluke with the clamp type CT attachment.
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They dont make Wiggys anymore cause they dont meet the IEC safety requirements.
 
mdshunk said:
Fluke T5-1000 or Fluke t5-600.
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Or a 332 - roughly equal in price, the clamp style is a little more versitile than the slot IMO.

Or hey heres some bang for buck - Fluke 62/322/1AC IR

Sure many of you might not think a thermometer a wise item or a clamp meter for that matter for an apprentice - but hey, 'Are you gonna do this or not' (gonna jump ship for an office job) - pretty resiliant tools and could last ya deep into Journey status - why buy twice...... Just leave the thermometer at home untill you figure out what you can do with it*, and not make the Journeymen jealous.

*hot breakers and loose connections, bad track fittings - long list...

Back on taxes.... Equipment/tools can be claimed as unreimursed job expense, including work related clothing and safety gear.
 
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zog said:
They dont make Wiggys anymore cause they dont meet the IEC safety requirements.
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Do you mean no more Wiggington brand testers, or no more solenoid testers at all? And which requirements?
 
If you understand

If you understand

Lemme' try to 'splain, in normal size font. I leave too much out.

I figure as long as you're taking the trouble to measure a voltage, you should also try to find out its series impedance. It's not that much more trouble.

If the impedance is, let's say, 200 milliohms or less, it's a valid, "stiff", voltage source. A 10 A load can verify this, or even a 1 A load if you have a 4-1/2 digit DVM.

If it is a capacitively induced voltage from a floating Romex conductor, the reading you get will depend very much on the input impedance of your meter, so different meters may give different readings. Let's say the capacitance is 5 nF, giving a reactance of 500 kohms in series with 120 v.
E.g., for the floating conductor in a 3 way switch setup, 70v on a DVM gave me 10v on a 1000 ohms/volt voltmeter, depending on what scale I had this cheapie meter on. This makes troubleshooting pretty interesting. A 4 w bulb or a 10 A load can verify this situation.

Also, if the line is in series with another load, say several lamps or a cooktop, it will also make things confusing if you believe it is a stiff voltage source because the 120 will drop excessively depending on the load. It's the same effect as a high resistance neutral connection at the panel.
A 10 A, or more, load can probably verify this, also.

The fluke meter referred to has an input current of <5 mA, so I don't know what it will read with a floating conductor.

This method finds the Thevenin equivalent impedance. This impedance is the difference between a lead acid car battery (~40 milliohms) and a car battery made from 8 AAA cells in series. The open circuit voltage is the same 12v but this second battery cannot support a starter motor load, and probably not even a headlight load.

That's also why, with a loose battery connection the lights go out when you try to crank the car. Headlights are ~6 amps, the starter motor is 200A (400A locked rotor with 4v applied).
If the loose or corroded battery connection has 0.1 ohm resistance, the headlights still get ~11.4 v, but the starter motor only gets ~0.8v.
 
T5-1000

T5-1000

I am with Marc and Pierre on this. I have thousands wrapped up over time in test equipment as well. The T5-1000 stays in my tool pouch which is the first thing I grab for.
 
76nemo said:
I am with Marc and Pierre on this. I have thousands wrapped up over time in test equipment as well. The T5-1000 stays in my tool pouch which is the first thing I grab for.
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There's something to be said for a 100 dollar tester that will take most of the measurements you need, is able to be dropped and beat around, used in the misting rain, and still works well. I sure wouldn't advise any apprentice to spend much money (certainly not the 300 dollar tax return money proposed) on a tester until he settles down in whatever niche area he'll be working in. If an apprentice needs to measure anything other than volts, ohm, and amps, the shop should have the tester he needs to use. Nothing wrong with wanting to own one better, but when I heard "tax return money", this caused me to believe that it wasn't exactly money he should be spending on a tester for probably no other reason than to enhance his male prowess on the jobsite.
 
mdshunk said:
this caused me to believe that it wasn't exactly money he should be spending
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exactly my thoughts. Is your IRA maxed out for the year? If not, that's where your $300 goes..
 
I guess the test equipment you buy depends on your troubleshooting strategy, so before you buy anything you should first figure out your strategy for handling the kind of knotty problems that are likely to show up, when problems do show up.

I'd use the Ideal 61-165 to find out as much as you can with each measurement you make, but I don't know the cost/benefit/ruggedness/ease-of-use tradeoff for this instrument vs. the others. With this tester you are finding answers you may need later.

If what you see on your tester still doesn't match your idea of how the place is wired then it's back to basics; known loads, RMS voltmeters, scopes.
 
Lxnxjxhx said:
I'd use the Ideal 61-165 to find out as much as you can with each measurement you make, but I don't know the cost/benefit/ruggedness/ease-of-use tradeoff for this instrument vs. the others. With this tester you are finding answers you may need later.
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Handy, IMO the 61-165 is a glorified receptacle analyzer, it is not a substitute for a V/A/O meter.

The Ideal Sure Test line are good supplemental pieces after other essential meters/testers are in the arsenal.

Roger
 
mdshunk said:
Fluke T5-1000 or Fluke t5-600.
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I could not agree more pound for pound the best 2 testers ever made. My only complaint is the ohms scale I think fluke dropped the ball on this on purpose so you have to buy 2 meters.
 
quogueelectric said:
I could not agree more pound for pound the best 2 testers ever made. My only complaint is the ohms scale I think fluke dropped the ball on this on purpose so you have to buy 2 meters.
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Maybe, but they get you within an ohm. If you need to measure finer than that, you're already doing something that you'd be better served using another sort of meter for anyhow.
 
I have used the Fluke T5-600 on occasion (there's one sitting in the gangbox, I'm not sure who it belongs to :D ), but the open jaws kinda throw me off, personally. I like having a clamp encircling the conductor I am measuring, myself.

It seems like the open jaw sometimes isn't big enough to measure the conductor I am measuring, as well. JMO. :)

Edit to add - I do like the dial on it, though. Simple and easy to use. :cool:
 
. . .still too high for a car battery

. . .still too high for a car battery

Could be. . .it probably depends on the current drawn and the cold-cranking-amp rating.

I modeled this with a series circuit with 12v in series with an internal impedance in series with a starter motor drawing 400A with 4v across it. The motor then comes in at 10 milliohms, and the internal battery impedance has (12-4) volts across it at 400 A which gives 20 milliohms.

My unspoken assumption is that they used a car battery of some unspecified amp-hour rating to do the locked rotor test rather than coming up with some humongous thing that can source 1200A and still maintain 12v.
 
Testers

Testers

to: MDShunk

I always trace the MDShunk replies, along with LarryFines.

So,

Here's advise from a 30 year Jman.

(1) I use the Wiggy type because it does the basic job,
and will not break when I drop it.

(2) I use a digital meter when I need accuracy,
and when the source signal is stable.
The Time Base is frequently 1 second in a digital circuit.

(3) I use my favorite Analog (meter with a needle) clamp on when I need to make an eyeball reading on 'in-rush' current.
The Time Base is 1/10 second,
so 'in-rush' peaking current reading becomes useful.
When the 5 Amp motor requires a quick in-rush towards 100 Amps to start,
it is fairly readable as a problem.
Only the Analog (meter with a needle) can provide this information
in a common multi-meter.

(4) Then there is the real tool, and it makes Electrical Things Interesting:
When there's a REAL problem or I am getting bored,
I bring out one of my Oscopes,
and record the exact waveform.
The Oscope shows harmonics and start-up readings exactly.
The Oscope shows more than you need to know
about Voltage and Current Waveforms.

The Oscope is like being in a college lab again.
The whole world is on the screen.
Boredom does away.

GlenE77is
 
glene77is said:
(3) I use my favorite Analog (meter with a needle) clamp on when I need to make an eyeball reading on 'in-rush' current.
The Time Base is 1/10 second,
so 'in-rush' peaking current reading becomes useful.
When the 5 Amp motor requires a quick in-rush towards 100 Amps to start,
it is fairly readable as a problem.
Only the Analog (meter with a needle) can provide this information
in a common multi-meter.

GlenE77is
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I don't know if I understand your statement correctly. A common multi-meter? Wouldn't that be a analog meter? Many digital clamps do inrush current and are triggerd also. Some claim that you need triggering for a good inrush current capture. Not too sure about that!
 
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