Refrigerators in residential units

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Dennis Alwon said:
I can't remember the last time I did a kitchen with just 2 small appliance circuits. When the house get to be 6,000 sq. ft and up you have to adapt to the larger space.

I don't care what others do and I never condemn others for doing the minimum-- it is just not for me and I don't feel it's adequate for many of the houses I do.

The code says it's okay to put all the bathroom recep. on one cir. I did that once and had call backs because the kids and a parent wanted to blow dry their hair at the same time. Of course, it is not my problem but when you do large homes the customers, at least my customers, expect a little more than minimum.
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Ironically, around here the McMansions are the homes that could best cope with just 2 SA kitchen circuits, since those homeowners get most of their food delivered from Boston Market, and the granite countertops rarely see a crumb.

In reference to the 20a bath circuit being inadequate, it's just as likely mom & daughter might want to blow-dry together in the master BR "dressing" alcove. Yet, there's probably only 1 15a circuit there shared with any number of BR outlets.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
...it's just as likely mom & daughter might want to blow-dry together ...
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Doesn't the M&D thing end about the time the kid gets her first cellphone?
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
In reference to the 20a bath circuit being inadequate, it's just as likely mom & daughter might want to blow-dry together in the master BR "dressing" alcove. Yet, there's probably only 1 15a circuit there shared with any number of BR outlets.
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That's why I put 20 amp receptacles in the dressing rooms also.
 
electricmanscott said:
Have any of you who run a seperate 20 amp circuit for the fridge ever actually looked at the nameplate on these fridges? :-?
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Mine, a 36" wide side-by-side with Icemaker says FLA 6.5

A Kenmore "energy star."

The drip coffeemaker, OTOH, is 1000 watts. The percolator, also 1000 watts. Showtime grill rotisserie, 1250 watts.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Mine, a 36" wide side-by-side with Icemaker says FLA 6.5

A Kenmore "energy star."

The drip coffeemaker, OTOH, is 1000 watts. The percolator, also 1000 watts. Showtime grill rotisserie, 1250 watts.
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So then would you agree a 20 amp dedicated circuit is not necessary for a refrigerator in most cases?
 
electricmanscott said:
So then would you agree a 20 amp dedicated circuit is not necessary for a refrigerator in most cases?
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I would agree that unless a customer tells me a sub-zero is going in, that placing the refrigerator on the SA circuit is the practical thing to do. If a separate circuit is to be run at all, for any reason, it ought to be 20a as there seems to be no middle ground... 15a isn't enough for a sub-zero and the trend for all the others is smaller compressors running longer, rather than larger compressors running shorter.

Then again, If I was wiring custom monster homes T&M, I'd throw in a lot of extras that cost me little but are a big value to the homeowner, just to keep the attaboys and kudos flowing in my direction. A separate fridge circuit would be one. I'd double-duplex every receptacle behind a bed, the bathroom, and media area.

Kitchens can be tricky because neither you nor the new homeowner can know exactly where the small appliances are going, and you don't know what the cooking habit is going to be. IMHO, code should allow kitchens with 1 30a 120v circuit serving all countertop receptacles.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
15a isn't enough for a sub-zero...
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This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't an expensive refrigerator like a Sub Zero be energy efficient? I'll be the nameplate current on one is less than 15 amps.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
... 15a isn't enough for a sub-zero ....
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I looked up the specs on a 650 over/under model.
The 650 states a 15A line ..."recommended seperate circuit".
http://www.subzero.com/subzero/subzeropdfs/650-PS.pdf

Incidently, ALL the 600 and 700 series are labeled as 15A.
(I looked at them all)
I guess, for me at least, a 20A will no longer be the upgrade...a 15A will be the upgrade. Of course, the customer can always opt for the "Super-Deluxe Package" and have it as a 20A. :D
 
peter d said:
Shouldn't an expensive refrigerator like a Sub Zero be energy efficient?
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They are listed as "Energy Star".

They can also be "Star-K" compliant:
With the installation of a harness kit, these appliances are Star-K compliant to meet strict religious regulations in conjunction with specific instructions found on star-k.org. You may purchase this harness kit through your Sub-Zero dealer. To obtain local dealer information, visit the Locator section of our website, subzero.com.
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I never heard of "Star-K"...so I had to look it up:
http://www.star-k.org/cons-appl-subzero.htm

Sub-Zero Refrigeration Products With the Sabbath Mode Feature

The following models, with the addition of the Sabbath Mode Accessory (purchased separately*) - except as noted below, may be used on the Jewish Sabbath or the Jewish Holidays (Yom Tov) when placed in the Sabbath mode.
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Amazing what one can learn in a few minutes.
 
Thanks for the Sub Z specs.
For everyone who insists on a 20 amp circuit "just in case" the fridge is changed to a sub Z unit you might want to read this. And I have installed many a 20 amp circuit for Sub Zero fridges. Oops!

Specs from a couple of different models. I checked all of them and did not find one that requires or looks like would even allow a 20 amp circuit.


"A 115v 60 hz 15 amp electrical supply is required.
The supply circuit for this appliance must be protected by a 15 amp fuse or circuit breaker. It is recomended that a seperate circuit, serving only this appliance, be provided"


"A 115 vac 60 hz 15 amp circuit breaker and electrical supply are required. A separate circuit servicing only this appliance is required".


I can think of no reason to install a 20 amp dedicated circuit for a residential kitchen refrigerator. In fact I have gone to using 15 amp circuits for the fridge, dishwasher, disposal. It is easier to work with and a little less expensive.

Edit to remove antagonizing comment. - George
 
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Guys, there's no reason to single somebody out and bash them or their practices, that's not what this is about. I've removed a few comments that were crossing the line. Keep it sweet.

I don't believe anybody is giving anything away. If you wire above minimum code, peachy. If you don't, great. If you charge accordingly (or not) no one could say for certain except the person doing the pricing.

Personally, I always used three SA circuits (for the most part) and installed the fridge on the same circuit that fed non-countertop areas of the SABC-governed rooms. That way, the counters didn't share a circuit with hardly any wall-space receptacles in the dining rooms and similar areas.

If I spent a little more of the boss' money there (with an extra 20A homerun), I can't say for certain; but there was never a legitimate complaint about the bottom line.

To each their own. Keep it friendly. :)
 
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