Refurbish CB in the field?

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iggy2

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I am working on a project which includes replacing many FPE Stab-lok circuit breaker panels in apartments. Not a problem, we have done tons of these.

The oddball on this project is the (5) FPE main circuit breaker/CT cabinet assemblies. One main CB was "done" under phase 1. The p-touch label above the CB says the "300A circuit breaker refurbished and tested 6/20/2015". Since the management has changed as of 12/31/15, there is little or no history available. But I am skeptical that the circuit breaker could be refurbished in the field, and if so, if there is any value to this. I'm also skeptical that it was tested to any sort of standard. But again, no access to historical documents or folks.

Stab-lok CBs are notoriously unreliable. But I'm not a concerned with a larger (300A) frame molded case CB by FPE, and feel they should be left alone, or if we do anything, replace them entirely.

Any thoughts?
 
Maybe if you take a picture of the sticker someone will recognize it. Plenty of CB guys on here.
 
iggy2 said:
I am working on a project which includes replacing many FPE Stab-lok circuit breaker panels in apartments. Not a problem, we have done tons of these.

The oddball on this project is the (5) FPE main circuit breaker/CT cabinet assemblies. One main CB was "done" under phase 1. The p-touch label above the CB says the "300A circuit breaker refurbished and tested 6/20/2015". Since the management has changed as of 12/31/15, there is little or no history available. But I am skeptical that the circuit breaker could be refurbished in the field, and if so, if there is any value to this. I'm also skeptical that it was tested to any sort of standard. But again, no access to historical documents or folks.

Stab-lok CBs are notoriously unreliable. But I'm not a concerned with a larger (300A) frame molded case CB by FPE, and feel they should be left alone, or if we do anything, replace them entirely.

Any thoughts?
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FPE breakers are notorious for not tripping when needed
 
there are professional refurbish companies. Many belong to PEARL.
They have standards for such too.
 
Sierrasparky said:
there are professional refurbish companies. Many belong to PEARL.
They have standards for such too.
Click to expand...
Yet, the P-Touch labeling would make me think it was not a professional job like that.

There are a lot of "breaker brokers" who resell used breakers and call them "refurbished" by just blowing them out with an air hose and wiping them down with WD-40. There really isn't anything else you can do to a molded case breaker, they are not designed to be taken apart. The only difference with a PEARL shop's process is that they will test it and certify it, which would mean a seal stating that. No seal, no testing. Just a blow-and-go.
 
Jraef said:
Yet, the P-Touch labeling would make me think it was not a professional job like that.

There are a lot of "breaker brokers" who resell used breakers and call them "refurbished" by just blowing them out with an air hose and wiping them down with WD-40. There really isn't anything else you can do to a molded case breaker, they are not designed to be taken apart. The only difference with a PEARL shop's process is that they will test it and certify it, which would mean a seal stating that. No seal, no testing. Just a blow-and-go.
Click to expand...

I am a bit unclear as to the label. It is my understanding there is a P touch label placed above the breaker, like on the panel cover. Something a EC may do to let others know that a refurb was installed.

also I have seen 300 amp breakers that are not riveted together.
 
Sierrasparky said:
I am a bit unclear as to the label. It is my understanding there is a P touch label placed above the breaker, like on the panel cover. Something a EC may do to let others know that a refurb was installed.
Click to expand...

that was my take as well. I figured the label was there to note that a refurbished breaker had been installed, not that it had been refurbished by someone in the field.
 
No, it's not a test/maintenance firm's label, and it does not say the breaker was replaced with a refurbished one - it just says the braeker was "refurbished and tested". I agree with posters above - I'm not sure there is any refurbish that can happen to a MCCB (at least not without sending it to the factory), and especially on an FPE breaker (no more factory...).

I am going to recommend that the breakers be retrofit with new CBs (which will probably require custom buss fabrication to suit the FPE enclosure), or they just be left alone. "Refurbishing" them is IMO a waste of time and money.

Thanks all.
 
iggy2 said:
No, it's not a test/maintenance firm's label, and it does not say the breaker was replaced with a refurbished one - it just says the braeker was "refurbished and tested". I agree with posters above - I'm not sure there is any refurbish that can happen to a MCCB (at least not without sending it to the factory), and especially on an FPE breaker (no more factory...).

I am going to recommend that the breakers be retrofit with new CBs (which will probably require custom buss fabrication to suit the FPE enclosure), or they just be left alone. "Refurbishing" them is IMO a waste of time and money.

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

maybe it was sent out to be refurbished and tested. it does not make much sense that someone would go to the trouble to make a label that provides false information.

I would not be doing any custom buss work inside of an existing panel board. If you are convinced the main needs replacing, maybe it is better to just replace the whole thing. Will probably cost less. Or remove the main from the panel board and add one externally.
 
This is from PEARL:

Finally, the application of the Blue reconditioning quality seal is affixed in testimony to this device being treated to and passing all necessary tests required by the referenced standard and will operate in a Safe and Reliable way as intended by the original equipment manufacture at the time it was made.
Click to expand...

Looks like this:
PEARL-Reconditioned-Quality-Seal-blue-sm2.jpg
 
Were you aware Los Angeles does not allow refurbished medium frame breakers even by pearl
 
Jraef said:
Yet, the P-Touch labeling would make me think it was not a professional job like that.

There are a lot of "breaker brokers" who resell used breakers and call them "refurbished" by just blowing them out with an air hose and wiping them down with WD-40. There really isn't anything else you can do to a molded case breaker, they are not designed to be taken apart. The only difference with a PEARL shop's process is that they will test it and certify it, which would mean a seal stating that. No seal, no testing. Just a blow-and-go.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Could not have said it better.

My recommendation would be to have these properly tested, if it fails replace it with a new one or at least one that comes with a certified test report. I can't help much more without knowing the breaker type but there may be other than FPE replacement options as well (Might require different mounting hardware)
 
iggy2 said:
No, it's not a test/maintenance firm's label, and it does not say the breaker was replaced with a refurbished one - it just says the braeker was "refurbished and tested". I agree with posters above - I'm not sure there is any refurbish that can happen to a MCCB (at least not without sending it to the factory), and especially on an FPE breaker (no more factory...).

I am going to recommend that the breakers be retrofit with new CBs (which will probably require custom buss fabrication to suit the FPE enclosure), or they just be left alone. "Refurbishing" them is IMO a waste of time and money.

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

What is the breaker type and panel type? You shouldn't need any custom bus, just the right kit.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Were you aware Los Angeles does not allow refurbished medium frame breakers even by pearl
Click to expand...

you are not allowed to use them at all, or can't install them in new installations?

it seems odd they would allow a CB that has never been refurbished but not to allow one to send it off to be refurbished and tested.
 
petersonra said:
you are not allowed to use them at all, or can't install them in new installations?

it seems odd they would allow a CB that has never been refurbished but not to allow one to send it off to be refurbished and tested.
Click to expand...

(a) Any used or secondhand material, including any fitting, device, appliance, apparatus, or other equipment reinstalled for electric wiring shall comply with the following provisions:



1. All such equipment shall be in good, satisfactory and durable condition, and adequate and satisfactory for the purpose intended or used, all of the foregoing to be determined by the Department. Such equipment must also comply with all requirements of Division 4 regarding approval.



2. No used or secondhand insulated conductors shall be used for services or for circuits operating at more than 250 volts.



3. No used, reconditioned, or refurbished molded or electronic trip molded case circuit breakers. (Added by Ord. No. 182,851, Eff. 1/3/14.)
 
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