Reindentification Revisited

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Re: Reindentification Revisited

Help us drive our wages up and inforce all black and white codes.Maybe we can work next on requiring a journeymans card on every job.
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being 40 miles north of me in lovely tampa florida you of all people should know ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! go brew yourself a cup of joe, take a seat on the recliner and repeat after me, florida, florida, florida

as for reidentification, fail'em. you give an inch and they WILL take a mile. my company will be the one of the first to start taking. i was told to install open trim's in recessed cans located in closets in manatee county "because we could get away with it"

i declined....


now im doing punch out for 2 weeks, hahaha
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Why do some areas feel they need to change the nec ? Would it not be great to be able to pass one test and work in any city,state,county and nothing has changed.Why would anyone change a code to allow a white wire used as a hot to not be reidentified ? Tape too costly ? Personally i go off on guys when i see that kinda garbage.Use a marker and fix it. :mad: :mad: :mad:Only one thing worse than not remarking a white used as a hot is to not remove the black tape if it's changed back to a grounded .And yes i had it happen to me.Very costly and i got the blame.

[ November 10, 2005, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Jes
I misunderstood your post, so I apologize for my comment to you.


My comment has nothing to do with MRLS from different locations - code amendments do not bother me, not following the code that applies to the area one works in bothers me. Because of this forum, I have learned of all of the different requirements in different jurisdictions; I can actually see how some make very good sense.
Am I saying I agree with all code requirements - hardly. It is hard to give anyone a free pass, what about all the others who seem to have no problem complying, even when they themselves do not agree with it, but do it anyway.


I have said this before, and I will repeat it for sake of strengthening how I feel about it.

I believe part of an inspectors job is to make the contractors job easier, and more importantly to impart accurate information to the entire industry in the area he works in. I always tried to, and am now, as mentioned above, have found a way of helping in the area I live in.

I believe that the contractor has the hardest part of our great industry, and helping a contractor is important, but not enabling him to make it easier for him - guiding him as best as our knowledge can.


That is how I plan on finishing my career.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Would it be unreasonable to approve the reidentification of conductors smaller than #4 for use as grounded or grounding conductors if the entire exposed length is reidentified from the point it leaves the raceway all the way to the termination?

I understand there is no option or exception for this allowance but "special permission" can be provided.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

The re-identification rules for smaller-than-#4 conductors mainly address cable assemblies, because that's the way they're made. When you have a conduit system, there's no excuse for using other than appropriate colors, since they are installed, and not amnufactured.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Originally posted by bphgravity:
Would it be unreasonable to approve the reidentification of conductors smaller than #4 for use as grounded or grounding conductors if the entire exposed length is reidentified from the point it leaves the raceway all the way to the termination?
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One time only, sure

All the time, no way
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

The code should be changed. The size has nothing to do with a safety issue. Either reidentification is safe or it is not safe. That fact doesn't magically change when the wire is #4 and larger.
don
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Thats basically the angle I am coming from. What happens when a #6 gets marked white that doesn't happen when $4 is?

The only thing I can think of is that sizes smaller than #4 are more likely to be installed as conductors for branch circuits whereas sizes #4 and larger are more likely for feeders and services. I don't see how that makes that much of a difference, but there seems to be no other distinction.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

I think the reason for the "size" issue is not because one size is safer than the next. It is because there are many who do work with the smaller size conductors who do not and may not understand what they are doing, so the NEC has added more restrictions for these sizes.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Seems like a cost issue to me. Re-identification tags can fall off or become discolored. It would be safer if all wires were the correct color, but then white and green insulated wires would have to be made in all sizes and contractors would have to carry or order those additional color/size combinations. They must have decided that at #4 and larger, the use is more obvious or the cost is just too high. But if the code mandates all wires to be fully colored in all sizes, I'm sure they will get manufactured.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Has anyone contacted cable makers and asked what are the largest size white- and green-insulated conductors available?
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Originally posted by LarryFine:
Has anyone contacted cable makers and asked what are the largest size white- and green-insulated conductors available?
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Any size (I think) you want with enough lead time. I've seen up to 500 or 600 in pretty colors.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
At least one company offers 10 colors in all sizes from 14 to 600kcmil.
Don
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Thanks for the link Don, I had wanted a chart of conductor weights. :)

I was surprised to find that according to that chart 10, 12 & 14 AWG are rated 30, 20 & 15 amps when run in conduit at 30?C maximum ambient air temperature and 90?C maximum conductor operating temperature per NEC Table 310.16. :p
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

We keep green rolls of #8 and #6 THHN in the shop. We also keep a roll of #4 white. And #3 black.

Did the supply houses have all these available? No. But, we asked them to carry these sizes for our use, and also assured them that if they did, I would not be the only one buying it, as long as they let their other customers know it was available.

Guess what? Turns out I was right all along. They do sell enough of that #4 white and #3 black to justify keeping it as a stock item.

I did not know that #0 was readily available in white. I will be ordering up a 500 foot roll in the near future (if the price is no different from the black). Although, with the prices of copper being what they are these days, I might wait awhile for my present stock of 1/0 to be depleted before placing that order ... :(

As for those 4-#8 black lines to pool equipment, we use 2-#8 lines (both black), a #10 white for the neutral, and a #10 green for the ground. No need to use larger wire than required, with the previously mentioned high prices these days.
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Did anyone else note that only the black is listed as sunlight resistant?
Don
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Don,
I guess the other colors would fade. But what would the white wire fade to?
What is the difference between a spool and a reel?
Why pink?
~Peter
 
Re: Reindentification Revisited

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Did anyone else note that only the black is listed as sunlight resistant?
Don
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Yes I did. Had the same problem when I bought the wires for my 400A overhead service. No one had "suitable" white 350 MCM in stock. So it was done with three black wires up the mast. I didn't try very hard to find white in some other type, I just asked if they had it in stock.
 
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