Is it legal to eliminate the quick connects on a reloc system and install a junction box. I tried finding reloc in the white book and failed. If it's UL listed as an assembly would it be legal to eliminate the quick connects and install a junction box. If so what is Reloc made of, what code article would it fall under, MC? Are the wires inside rated like MC, can you use MC connectors? References to NEC and UL would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the past I have done this for repairs, but they want me to replace all the quick connects with j-boxes and run cords out for new lights. Please help!!!!!!!!!!! If I sound desperate, I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reloc
- Thread starter binney
- Start date
- Status
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Any alternation or modification to a UL listed assembly or product is a violation of that listing. Section 110.3(B) of the NEC would apply. See Part VI. FIELD MODIFICATIONS in Part I of the UL Directory (AALZ)
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Brian,
I am not so sure you can't modify this product. The cable is required to be Listed AC or MC cable. {604.6(A)(1)} If you cut off the ends and hardwire it per the Chapter 3 rules I see no real issue. It is my opinion that after you cut off the plugs you have a listed cable and it still can be used.
Don
I am not so sure you can't modify this product. The cable is required to be Listed AC or MC cable. {604.6(A)(1)} If you cut off the ends and hardwire it per the Chapter 3 rules I see no real issue. It is my opinion that after you cut off the plugs you have a listed cable and it still can be used.
Don
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The code only permits very limited use of cord, so this may be an issue.
Don
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
I would likely agree Don, but without knowing the exact details or the enforcement policies of the AHJ in the OP's area, I tend to answer conservatively.
Reloc is code 604 Manufactured Wiring System and UL rated to have both ends on in the past I have seen electricians wish to cut the quick connects off various systems my own included and field wire them in each case I have had to send out replacements as the Inspector would not accept the modification.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I cut them off all the time without a second thought and no inspector has questioned it.
I am sure 're-locs' view would be that I must buy a new whip but that will be there loss.
We had a customer with an older re-loc installation that used plastic retaining clips. The plastic got brittle with age and anyone working in the ceiling that bumped into the whips would cause them to unplug. We would simply cut them off and enter them into the light like we would with any MC cable.
I am sure 're-locs' view would be that I must buy a new whip but that will be there loss.
We had a customer with an older re-loc installation that used plastic retaining clips. The plastic got brittle with age and anyone working in the ceiling that bumped into the whips would cause them to unplug. We would simply cut them off and enter them into the light like we would with any MC cable.
I got a response from a UL representative today.
Removal of the manufactured cable connectors and connection components at the luminaires would eliminate the UL Mark and the proof of UL Listing of the product. While the basic NEC categories would be covered under either AC or MC Cable in accordance with the NEC, there are no specific individual conductor or cable assembly marking requirements every 24 inches as you would find on a roll of THHN or THWN building wire. They are found on a tag with every roll of AC or MC cable when purchased at the wholesale supplier level.
What this essentially means is the local AHJ has absolutely NO way of knowing or identifying the wiring method that was used. Therefore, compliance with the NEC would be difficult to impossible at best. It could mean total rejection of the installation and an expensive removal of product and a new and complete installation of new material.
What do you think of that?
Removal of the manufactured cable connectors and connection components at the luminaires would eliminate the UL Mark and the proof of UL Listing of the product. While the basic NEC categories would be covered under either AC or MC Cable in accordance with the NEC, there are no specific individual conductor or cable assembly marking requirements every 24 inches as you would find on a roll of THHN or THWN building wire. They are found on a tag with every roll of AC or MC cable when purchased at the wholesale supplier level.
What this essentially means is the local AHJ has absolutely NO way of knowing or identifying the wiring method that was used. Therefore, compliance with the NEC would be difficult to impossible at best. It could mean total rejection of the installation and an expensive removal of product and a new and complete installation of new material.
What do you think of that?
some relocs are assemblies consisting of listed reloc adadpters and cable. You might be able to dissassemble some of the cable assemblies to give you the adapter ends you need at the boxes, Alternatively, you can purchase reloc connectors and whips to make your connections at the boxes to the listed cable assemblies.
- Location
- Massachusetts
binney said:
I think they are trying to keep the appearance of the UL listing as they only thing that matters and without them to tell us something is OK we are all just lost without a clue.
I also think that an AHJ could very well determine they are looking at MC or AC cable.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Baloney!! The code requires that if the manufactured wiring system in made of a cable, it must be listed AC or MC cables. 604.6(A)(1) If the assembly had a listing to start with, then the cable would have to be a listed cable...unless UL is saying that they don't follow the rule in 604.6 when they list manufactured wiring systems.
Don
http://forums.mikeholt.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=742963
http://www.lithonia.com/products/Family2.asp?Brand=LL&Family=QSFC&ProductType=Reloc%20Wiring%20Systems&Category=Commercial%20Wiring%20System&SubCategory=Quick-Flex#SpecificationSheetshere's a link to the data sheets on lithonia's site where you can peruse
(you can buy the whips and connectors to boxes)
(you can buy the whips and connectors to boxes)
- Location
- Massachusetts
nakulak said:
No kidding you can buy the parts? :roll: :smile:
But when your dealing with older versions that are no longer in production or your on a service call trying to get a stores registers back on line and the product in question is just AC or MC with some plugs riveted on there is no reason not to cut off the ends and hardwire the sections.
In my opinion UL is wrong and there is no reason a AHJ has to turn the installation down.
sheldon_ace
Member
- Location
- Owego, NY
I agree
I agree
I cut them off all the time. I have never had the AHJ turn it down. They (AHJ) know it would only be logical that the cable assembly used to make the re-locs would be listed AC or MC to begin with. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this would be a perfectly compliant install.
As for the OP, I am not quite sure what direction they are going. Maybe a little more info would help?
Gerry
I agree
iwire said:
I cut them off all the time. I have never had the AHJ turn it down. They (AHJ) know it would only be logical that the cable assembly used to make the re-locs would be listed AC or MC to begin with. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this would be a perfectly compliant install.
As for the OP, I am not quite sure what direction they are going. Maybe a little more info would help?
Gerry
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