Removing Wall Plaster

[MEK]

I've heard from many people, including from this forum, that old residential wall plaster doesn't have asbestos.

However, I've read web sites such as the following at http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/exposure/ex_industry_construction.htm:

"Electricians may have been exposed to asbestos?containing pipe, electrical insulation, or building insulation. They are also subject to exposure when doing maintenance or remodeling work in older buildings that are contaminated with asbestos...

Many dry wall products, such as joint compound, contained asbestos which could be inhaled while mixing the dry compounds and when sanding the walls. Asbestos also is contained in some dry wall tape, plaster, and wall?patching compounds. Blown ceilings are another source of asbestos contamination"


I can understand old insulation having asbestos, but did residential wall plaster have it also? I don't remember anyone discussing "asbestos abatements" whenever removing electrical boxes out of old walls.


Also: which asbestos-containing electrical insulation should I be wary of in old residential homes? Are they concerned about the Type "A" asbestos wires?

 

[e57]

The soil in my back yard and all over this city contains it. Its naturally occuring in certain types of rock.

But to answer your question - it depends - old plaster can mean a lot of things. Some will, some wont - depends on who mixed it.

And same would go for wire insulation - most of which wont be building wire, normally it's in appliance wire - still is....

Many field made K&T fuse enclosures from prior to the 40's had sheets of it as a lining. I have had to remove many, and I'm fine - hack (cough)

 

[mdshunk]

In my last asbestos class, the instructor did seem to indicate that gypsum wall panels did not/do not contain asbestos, but certain older joint tapes did.

In old plaster, the lead issue is a bigger concern, in my opinion.

 

[e57]

Lead in plaster, or do you mean in the paint?

FYI Aspestos was used in plaster for a while - when it was popular - as a replacement for horse hair that was used as filler and reinforcment - now its fiber-glass.

 

[mdshunk]

Lead in plaster, or do you mean in the paint?

The paint, mainly. I suppose that if plaster is old enough that you're removing it or cutting into it, it surely contains lead based prodcts. No guarantee, naturally, but a good rule of thumb. In my area, not much genuine plastering was done after 1978, so it was all installed in the lead paint era.

You are giving out the required lead pamphlet when you cut into walls for boxes and such in pre 1978 homes, aren't you?

 

[e57]

You are giving out the required lead pamphlet when you cut into walls for boxes and such in pre 1978 homes, aren't you?

They do make a simple home test for paint....

No - do tell.... I just learned that the liability disclosure and lien warning notice was required....

 

[mdshunk]

They do make a simple home test for paint....

No - do tell.... I just learned that the liability disclosure and lien warning notice was required....

Be VERY careful about doing a lead test on someone else's paint. I was warned at the "lead safe work practices" class that contractors who were not hired expressly for a lead consultation have been effectively sued by the homeowner for disclosing a positive lead test result to them when the homeowner did not order that it be done. You see, if they know for a fact that their home contains lead (since you told them) they must disclose that at the time of a re-sale. This will cause the home to have a diminished value, and it will be your fault. I think it's stupid, but aparently it has happened.

I'll have to get my lead workbook out to get more details, but you are supposed to give out the EPA pahmplet "Protect you and your family from lead in your home" each time you do work in a pre-1978 home. There is a "receipt" that the person is supposed to sign that they received the pamphlet. Sorta like the doctors and dentists all do now with that health information privacy act "HIPA" stuff. Both that booklet and the receipt are downloadable from the EPA website, or you can order them from them.

 

[e57]

No I do not test for lead.... Nor will I. There are tests people can buy though... I do know that here in SF that the city now has painter and plasterers get the OUTSIDE tested.

And google of those word popped up the pamphlet I thing you are taking about. http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/leadpdfe.pdf But no did not know this was required.... Please say more if you can...

 

[mdshunk]

Please say more if you can...

Here's the whole run-down for contractors, straight from the EPA, on the pre-rennovation homeowner education rules.

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/interiorfinal2.pdf


This is an excellent PDF on the matter. If your work will disturb less than two square feet of painted surfaces in total, you don't need to worry about it. It doesn't take too many cut in boxes and access holes to get up to two square feet.

 

[e57]

Well Marc,

That was a very interesting and quick read - very informative - I did not know this... But then again I am rarely the one who gets to bash open a painted surface greater than 2 square feet. ("Trenching and wall surface removal by others" in contract) But still darned good to know...

I just e-mailed me patrone on the topic to see if he knew....

Mark

 

[mdshunk]

... But then again I am rarely the one who gets to bash open a painted surface greater than 2 square feet. ("Trenching and wall surface removal by others" in contract) But still darned good to know...

Consider this one.... I do a great number of service changes. Many, many old panelboards were mounted in the basement on a painted board hanging from a floor joist, as old cellar walls are stone and unsuitable for mounting equipment. My new panel is always bigger, so I often need to rip this board down and install a new, more substantial one of my own. It's a simple matter to rip down that board, but it is greater than 2 square feet and I'm disturbing it. Just last week I had to install 6 old work recessed cans in a plaster ceiling. Sometimes, you go to a job expecting to do some simple little thing, and you sorta get ambushed by a much larger project. I like to present the lead book and get the receipt signed anyhow when I go to look at bigger work, as it is most common for nobody to be home (thus no one to sign) when I'm actually doing the work.