Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

[aelectricalman]

Editted to say: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!


How many people in this forum find it no big deal to test to see if a receptacle is hot by bridging the hot to neutral with your two fingers? Yes it tingles and im guilty of it. Secondly, we all know the difference between getting shocked this way and getting shocked from hand to hand (hence traveling through your chest). Has anyone heard of any stories or research regarding death or serious injury from 120V system shocks? It is almost commonplace for me to get zap a little (120V system) once every other week. It doesnt bother me anymore, just alittle uncomfortable. In my older age (28) im starting to worry more about my health and risks I take. I would like to hear some horror stories or the negatives of casual shock so I can educate my workers on why its a good idea to not take 120 systems for granted. I understand it is the Amps you must worry about, not the voltage. However alot of people tend to not think about that in the field. With 240/277/480/69KV/138KV /169KV people seem to be very careful. Is 120V overlooked or is this simply not enough to warranty extreme safety measures?

P.S.

Funny enough my father was an electrician and we have heart desease that runs in our family. All of my dads 6 brothers and 3 sisters died at 60 or younger except my dad. He was the only electrician of the family and he lived to be 77. Im sure he was shocked a few times in his long life. Im sure he used his fingers well before fnacy insturments of today. Probably just coincidence but interesting!

[ July 04, 2005, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: aelectricalman ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Originally posted by aelectricalman:
Has anyone heard of any stories or research regarding death or serious injury from 120V system shocks?

If you do a little research you will find the majority of electrocutions are from 120 volt circuits.

120 volts kills many people, you do not grow immune to it you just have not been hit in the right way to kill you....yet.

 

[redfish]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Please use the proper testing equipment from now on, not your fingers. You have been lucky up to this point, and someday you may be the teacher to up and coming electricians. Teach them the right way, respect any voltage, and live a long life.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Im generally focusing on 120 15-20 amp circuits. While changing receptacles, or things like this. Am I the only one in here that on occasion tends to forget the importance of what you just said. Im really focusing on the little tid bits of shock. Testing wires (the wrong way), yada yada. Does anyone see this as an issue that should go addressed. Does anyone else do it. I actually quit doing it but am guilty of it.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Redfish, I agree with you. This is why I raise this point. I really want to raise awareness, becasue I know Im not the only one in here that is quilty of this. I will not do it again and want to hear stories of this same ignorance as portrayed through the years of experience in this room. I am going to put together a packet for my employees. At the end of the reading I will test them on safety on the job site. I am looking for good info to help with my teachings.

 

[iwire]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Originally posted by aelectricalman:
Im generally focusing on 120 15-20 amp circuits.

Exactly the rating of the receptacles that are singled out for GFCI protection due to the number of electrocutions from those outlets.

Sure we all forget sometimes and get hit once in a while.

IMO an accidental contact is much different than an intentional contact.

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

I agree about the difference in contacts and thats exactly what I am inquiring about. Intentional contact and long term effects. Thanks for posts thus far.

 

[physis]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

to test to see if a receptacle is hot by bridging the hot to neutral with your two fingers

I don't do that, not because I'm scared, not because I can't take it, not because it's wrong, not because of any of those reasons.

I know, the depth of philosophical contemplation behind my reasoning may seem rather staggering to some.

I don't do that because I don't like the way it feels.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Chris,
Here are some facts about amp ranges and reactions.

Here is an article in ECM about CPR and stuff. Interesting read to pass along.

But I confess, my searching came up short for what I was looking for.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

The most dangerous long-term effects of unsafe work practices would be complacency. The attitude, "I have always done it this way and it never killed me before" is the moto of dead men walking.

If you review OSHA reports of workplace fatalities relating to electrical accidents, you will find an interesting fact that many injuries and deaths occur while people are doing common everyday tasks the same way the have always performed them. There is a misconception that a major incident, or a lack of experience leads to all accidents. Though new operations and new equipment does relate to workplace deaths, many just simply happen while workers were performing routine tasks.

My point is that you can do something over and over and never have ill effects. But then one day, and for whatever reason, your dead.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Originally posted by aelectricalman: How many people in this forum find it no big deal to test to see if a receptacle is hot by bridging the hot to neutral with your two fingers?

I hope the answer is ?None!? Let me offer another consideration. You seem to think (and I suspect many might think this too) that when your two fingers touch the hot and the neutral, the only path for current to flow through your body is from the Hot, into one finger, through part of your hand to the other finger, and out to the Neutral. Not true! Very much not true!

A key fact that all electrical professionals need to understand, as early in their careers as possible, is that current takes all available paths that lead back to its source. Many of us will readily acknowledge this fact. But we don?t always see its application to all on-the-job situations. Consider this: While you are feeling the tingle that you described, there is another path for current to flow through your body. It is a path of higher resistance, and it will therefore be a lower current, but it will be a current. The path is from the Hot, into one finger, through your arm to your entire body, into your feet (or to another body part, if you happen to be leaning against a wall, for example), into the floor (or wall), via planet Earth to the system?s ground rod, up the GEC to the ground bus, via the main bonding jumper to the neutral bus, and thus back to the source.

Remember this: Every time you try this ?test,? some amount of current will be flowing through your heart. Every time!

Would you care to revise your recommendation:

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

Perhaps something along these lines:

DO NOT TRY THIS, EVER!

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

I'm with Charlie B on this, ALL THE WAY!

It is a very bad practice and should be discouraged at every point in your career.

 

[paul32]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Charlie, your alternative path involved contact with another ground point. However, I think you could also describe the path as through one finger, hand, arm, heart, back to arm, hand, other finger. Charlies point about always going through the heart does not depend on an unexpected point of contact.

 

[bthielen]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

This isn't related to electrical work however the underlying concept is.

My first real job after graduating high school was for a local logging operation. Until my first day, I had never handled a chainsaw. The business owner decided to take me under his wing, so to speak, and teach me the ropes. One comment he made that seemed to stick with me was, "The highest risk machine operator is the seasoned veteran because he/she becomes too comfortable with the machinery." As a person becomes more and more comfortable and confident he/she can also become too careless. For me, it wasn't until a couple years later when I became too overly confident that it nearly cost me a couple fingers. It was no true accident because I took unnecessary risk to save about 3 seconds of time.

Bob

 

[aelectricalman]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Thank you all. This is exactly what I was looking for. I have read alittle of what george provided through links. I will pass this along in my arguements. As I said, i don't do it anymore, but have been know to be guilty of it. I want to educate my employees on why not to do it. Possibly as quotes if you all don't mind.

Thanks, Chris

 

[redfish]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Wow, I also just remembered what my screwdriver looked like after I accidently shorted it out on a 120V device!

 

[charlie b]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Originally posted by aelectricalman: I want to educate my employees on why not to do it. Possibly as quotes if you all don't mind.

Feel free. Anything I post here is available for anyone to borrow or shamelessly steal. I think I have once or twice asked to get authorship credit for specific quotes, but I don't expect royalties.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

It might sound like a si fi thing but we have a guy that works for us 15 years in trade and has never as I have seen use a wiggy a fluke a ticker.He uses his fingers doesn`t natter 120 or 240 volt.He will walk up to an open panel and take two fingers and touch both ungrounded conductors and just as a matter of factly say ,you have a phase out or say YUP you have 240 Do I agree with his way of testing no but i have worked with and around this guy for years.He has done this as long as I have known him.He will go up to a panel touch the cabinet and rub his fingers up one side of the breakers and down the other and tell you what is hot and what isn`t.No light bulb no problem stick a finger in the socket turn it on he just smiles and says got power.Is this an urban legend NO !!!
I have seen this guy do this for years.... Is it possible that over the years he has built up a resistance to electricity. Maybe but he does it all the time ,He refuses to use a voltage detector and can actually tell you of a voltage drop on a phase or that there is an open neutral when he places his fingers between the neutral and another phase.We have tried to stop him to this action short of firing him.He does piece work and does about9.500 aq ft / week sets his own scheduling taskes care of the inspecdtions.I once asked him Mike will you do that with 277 he looked at me and said electricity is electricity the way you grab the ground is what effects the way it affects you.Has anyone else encountered a person that can do this in 32 years he is the 1st

 

[roger]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Allen, you used to believe (from a previous T pole post, archives I believe) that a ground rod was there to clear a fault or carry the neutral current too.

Roger

[ July 05, 2005, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Repeated exposure to electrocution from 120 outlets.

Roger i remember that post it involved a lost neutral at a tpole an what occured. This is a horse of another color.I have watched him walk up to open panel where we thought we had lost a neutral at the trans and in 3 sec he said nope its in the branch circuit.Shut down breakers as we shut them down one at a time when the affected circuit was found he called out tants thye one.Will I do this no way but to Mike O its a daily routine just wonded=red if anyone else has encountered a person that can do this I can`T