Replace Old Breakers?

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iceworm said:
These are not part of my client's equipment, however they are examples:
As I recall:
Micom (generation protection)
C-H Digitrip 1150 (+ and +i)

I think these two use contacts and are still in current production.
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1150's are legacy products I believe , I can repair those FYI
 
zog said:
Sort of, they are considered legacy products, you can buy a new one but they will do everything they can to talk you into something current, who knows what happens now with the acquisition by ABB.
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Thanks- just let them know there are things considered timeless :happyyes:
 
zog said:
A few years ago I was able to sit down and talk with the head engineer that designed them, sadly he passed about 2 years ago but sure was an interesting guy.
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Thats an honor for sure. I hope he was recognized for his achievement.
 
It appears the OP was asking about industrial breakers, but I'd like to interject about residential breakers.

As part of doing a complete electrical safety inspection, I turn each breaker off and on three times and note whether it feels like it's operating smoothly/correctly. I then check that it has no voltage flowing when turned off, and has voltage flowing when turned on. I also tug on each wire.

I have not seen any official protocol for testing residential style breakers. Everything I'm doing is just my best guess as to how to diagnose a breaker's condition. Comments?
 
Coppersmith said:
It appears the OP was asking about industrial breakers, but I'd like to interject about residential breakers.

As part of doing a complete electrical safety inspection, I turn each breaker off and on three times and note whether it feels like it's operating smoothly/correctly. I then check that it has no voltage flowing when turned off, and has voltage flowing when turned on. I also tug on each wire.

I have not seen any official protocol for testing residential style breakers. Everything I'm doing is just my best guess as to how to diagnose a breaker's condition. Comments?
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That’s about all other than looking for discoloring and obvious heating damage.
 
ptonsparky said:
I agree, but picture myself trying to get a decent load connected to a lighting only circuit for less than the $4-$7 replacement cost of the CB while dressed in gloves and a monkey suit.
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With a sensitive enough voltmeter, an indecent load would be quite adequate. :angel:
 
If a breaker does not break all poles when manually activated, can we reasonably assume it will open under thermal or magnetic operation? Obviously that is the symptom that most of us will see. I have a job with some I-lines from 1975, and they were a little reluctant to open the first time, but seemed to be like new after a few toggles. The 1000 main however would not open. After a bunch of tries, two of the poles now open but one still remains closed. Funny, this is a Square D PAF frame and the same client had the exact same problem with the same breaker a few years ago at another location. I am debating what to do about this.
 
I think that if a breaker does not break all poles with manual activation there is close to 0 chance that it will open properly from thermal or magnetic trip. I certainly would never rely on it.

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GoldDigger said:
I think that if a breaker does not break all poles with manual activation there is close to 0 chance that it will open properly from thermal or magnetic trip. I certainly would never rely on it.

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We have a customer that has equipment (in various bldgs around the bay area) that is between 40 and 50 yrs old that we usually maintained on a regular basis. Some fall thru the cracks. Had one bldg last week that had to run on generator for 1 1/2 wks before the contractor could move the load cables of the ATS to another circuit after the normal breaker single-phased during transfer (phase C not making.) Although they religiously test and transfer load to gen on a monthly basis the molded case breakers do fail. One reason is the motor operators are never removed from the ATS and the breaker covers removed to clean the dried grease and re-lube the latching/ closing mechanism. This is because it requires a complete shutdown of the house service panel and the load has to be fed from battery banks which they try to avoid. Usually we try to have a spare breaker on hand (if one can be located) prior to shutdown in case the fixed mounted breaker can't be repaired. But in most cases they are repairable. Just takes some TLC and good grease. :)
 

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electrofelon said:
If a breaker does not break all poles when manually activated, can we reasonably assume it will open under thermal or magnetic operation? Obviously that is the symptom that most of us will see. I have a job with some I-lines from 1975, and they were a little reluctant to open the first time, but seemed to be like new after a few toggles. The 1000 main however would not open. After a bunch of tries, two of the poles now open but one still remains closed. Funny, this is a Square D PAF frame and the same client had the exact same problem with the same breaker a few years ago at another location. I am debating what to do about this.
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See post #36
This applies to air frame breakers as well as molded case types.
We find that most of the time breakers fail to open or close all phases is due to not being operated/ exercised on a regular basis (we recommend a 3 year interval for exercising and current injection.) Add to the fact that breakers are not normally opened up until a problem exists. This is especially true if the breaker is not part of an automatic transfer switch that at least gets operated on a power failure. Over time the grease dries up and mixed with the dirt causes the linkages and mechanism to seize up and not slide easily to latch and close properly. Powering down, removing the cover , cleaning the old grease, re-lubing the mechanism usually corrects the problem, unless of course a part fails that has to be replaced. Think of it as the same as if you did not drive your car for months (years?) and the problems you would encounter.
As to your first question about a breaker tripping (opening on a fault) properly, this is determined during the 3 year PM schedule where thru primary or secondary current injection tests the breaker is evaluated for continued service.
For a good reference see the NETA acceptance and maintenance specs.
 
MAC702 said:
Not only this, but is that main breaker also a required disconnect?
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Yes it is the service disconnect. I am actually more concerned about single phasing and/or not disocnnecting all poles due to the one pole hanging up, than the OCPD functionality.

ATSman said:
See post #36
This applies to air frame breakers as well as molded case types.
We find that most of the time breakers fail to open or close all phases is due to not being operated/ exercised on a regular basis (we recommend a 3 year interval for exercising and current injection.) Add to the fact that breakers are not normally opened up until a problem exists. This is especially true if the breaker is not part of an automatic transfer switch that at least gets operated on a power failure. Over time the grease dries up and mixed with the dirt causes the linkages and mechanism to seize up and not slide easily to latch and close properly. Powering down, removing the cover , cleaning the old grease, re-lubing the mechanism usually corrects the problem, unless of course a part fails that has to be replaced. Think of it as the same as if you did not drive your car for months (years?) and the problems you would encounter.
As to your first question about a breaker tripping (opening on a fault) properly, this is determined during the 3 year PM schedule where thru primary or secondary current injection tests the breaker is evaluated for continued service.
For a good reference see the NETA acceptance and maintenance specs.
Click to expand...

Good info thanks. The building is currently unoccupied. Maybe I will investigate cleaning the unit, or sending it out to have this done.
 
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