replacing 250w hps wall pack

[Electric-Light]

It could be. There's no doubt that the LED luminaires are designed differently. But considering I've took readings with full cut-off LEDs vs open and half cut off Wallpacks (MH and HPS) the LEDs won out.

What about LEDs compared to compact ceramic metal halide system? The arc tube is directly installed into the luminaire instead of using a lamp with a large outer bulb which interferes with optics design.

The other thing we need to remember is that LEDs are a "sexy" product that pique customers' interest. Most customers are unwilling to shell out $350 for a well designed MH luminaire, but they won't think twice about shelling it out for LED.

Penny wise, dollar foolish is everywhere. There isn't a strong marketing presence for good MH products, but LEDs are strongly pushed by salespeople who earn commission.

Those shelling out twice on LEDs very likely have been misled by salesman who may have used less than honest values, like "scotopic lumen" to compensate for poor efficacy. While mesopic vision effect may exist, its not something you can credit to LED technology. Same effect can be observed by using 6500K CFL, 6500K MH etc.

At the end of the day, and as much as I hate it, if it puts viable, energy efficient tech into sockets then it matters little to me how it's done.

I think we need to spread awareness of misleading tactics used by LED salespeople.

 

[TNBaer]

Penny wise, dollar foolish is everywhere. There isn't a strong marketing presence for good MH products, but LEDs are strongly pushed by salespeople who earn commission.

There's a lot of truth in that. The other part is that there is good LED product on the shelf. For instance, my vendors don't stock CMH wallpacks. They do offer 70 Watt MH wallpacks ($175 each), which is exactly what I'm replacing and have no need for. A 20 Watt Cooper Crosstour, which replaces that generic wallpack is $177. I've had good luck with those replacements, and while I'm sure other technology may be better in higher end fixtures, availability and price become hurdles. The fact in the marketplace is that LED's appeal has lowered its price; it's to the point where LED may exceed the benefits of other tech which remains hard to come by. I guess I could install CMH 6" cans in the soffit outside this plaza I'm doing but P&A is a train wreck, my vendors are unfamiliar with it, and getting pricing could take weeks. Or, I could get LED retrofit cans and have them in my shop by noon today.

Those shelling out twice on LEDs very likely have been misled by salesman who may have used less than honest values, like "scotopic lumen" to compensate for poor efficacy. While mesopic vision effect may exist, its not something you can credit to LED technology. Same effect can be observed by using 6500K CFL, 6500K MH etc.

No doubt. I think I've mentioned this before. The type of misleading info put out by LED representatives is unscrupulous. They'll mention that T8s use 41 watts or some such. It's absurd. I call these folks out on LinkedIn but they never respond to me. To be honest, I don't even know where to begin when it comes to the shenanigans these guys pull.

 

[Electric-Light]

hey do offer 70 Watt MH wallpacks ($175 each), which is exactly what I'm replacing and have no need for. A 20 Watt Cooper Crosstour, which replaces that generic wallpack is $177.

I guess time will tell as far as long time durability and performance maintenance. Lack of instant start and warm up that takes minutes are no doubt disadvantages held by MH, which may or may not matter depending on application.

I've had good luck with those replacements, and while I'm sure other technology may be better in higher end fixtures, availability and price become hurdles. The fact in the marketplace is that LED's appeal has lowered its price; it's to the point where LED may exceed the benefits of other tech which remains hard to come by. I guess I could install CMH 6" cans in the soffit outside this plaza I'm doing but P&A is a train wreck, my vendors are unfamiliar with it, and getting pricing could take weeks. Or, I could get LED retrofit cans and have them in my shop by noon today.

I'm not saying LEDs are the evil. The presentation of them is. Contrary to how LED sales condemn discharge technology as mercury filled, stone age inefficient technology that hasn't changed since mid 20th century.

No doubt. I think I've mentioned this before. The type of misleading info put out by LED representatives is unscrupulous. They'll mention that T8s use 41 watts or some such. It's absurd. I call these folks out on LinkedIn but they never respond to me. To be honest, I don't even know where to begin when it comes to the shenanigans these guys pull.

There was some at one point I'm sure. It was never very common, but there were rapid start magnetic T8 ballasts. A 0.95 BF one lamp F32T8 ballast would probably use 41W input.

 

[TNBaer]

I guess time will tell as far as long time durability and performance maintenance. Lack of instant start and warm up that takes minutes are no doubt disadvantages held by MH, which may or may not matter depending on application.

In outdoor applications warm up time isn't much of an issue.

I'm not saying LEDs are the evil. The presentation of them is. Contrary to how LED sales condemn discharge technology as mercury filled, stone age inefficient technology that hasn't changed since mid 20th century.

If I hear one more LED rep call fluorescent "Gas and Glass" and call it 19th century technology I think I'll go crazy.

There was some at one point I'm sure. It was never very common, but there were rapid start magnetic T8 ballasts. A 0.95 BF one lamp F32T8 ballast would probably use 41W input.

Not that they call it 41 watts specifically, but they just seem to make up whatever wattage they want when it comes to comparing LED and fluorescent.