Replacing Receptacles in an Old Home

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LarryFine said:
Yes.
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My house was built in 1962 with 14/2 NM with the reduced #16 guage ground . Most of the what we called 2.5" bevel edge wall cases had a NM cable with one entering top of box & other bottom of box with maybe only 1" of wire wrapped around clamp screws. Wires are not long enough to splice together and had to make two splices inside small boxes. Was unable to use a crimp on fitting due to not able to get crimping tool into rear of box. They did use #12 NM cable on kitchen counter top receptacles.
 
garbo said:
Most of the what we called 2.5" bevel edge wall cases had a NM cable with one entering top of box & other bottom of box with maybe only 1" of wire wrapped around clamp screws.
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Gem boxes.

I would have left the wires on the screws and added a jumper/pigtail.
 
Sea Nile said:
I know you are joking, but all jokes aside, I picked up a box of 10 non TR for next to nothing 2 weeks ago
View attachment 2564273

Edit: But you can make them look old by letting the painter paint them after you install them
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Aren't those the kind that break in half when you plug something in?

You can get Heavy Duty rated non-TR outlets for $2 each if you look around.
 
Leave the EGC alone. Remove the receptacle, check continuity between the grounding and the neutral conductor, if there is continuity most likely the EGC is good, install a new grounding type receptacle, make sure there is metal to metal contact between the strap and the metallic box, you are done.
 
LarryFine said:
Gem boxes.

I would have left the wires on the screws and added a jumper/pigtail.
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Been a couple times I've done the same thing. It was complaint to ground that way with the clamp screw at the time so I view it the same as adding an extension to a circuit with reduced ground size where what I add is properly sized to now even though it is fed from the 16 awg ground.
 
Can you legally extend off a undersized egc? Without tapping into an appropriate sized egc. Forgot what section in 250 it’s staes we’re you can tap into

I understand your point it was compliant on install.
 
AC\DC said:
Can you legally extend off a undersized egc? Without tapping into an appropriate sized egc. Forgot what section in 250 it’s states we’re you can tap into
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letgomywago said:
You can from an ungrounded so long as your provide gfci so I can't think of a code reason it wouldn't be.
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I'm a little confused. Are you saying extend off an undersized EGC as long as you go through a GFI first?
Or are you saying you can extend an ungrounded circuit through a GFI?
Or am I completely off base?

Edit: what confuses me is that if you can extend an ungrounded, then shouldn't you also be able to extend an undersized egc? Seems like that would be the safer extension of the two
 
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Sea Nile said:
zEdit: what confuses me is that if you can extend an ungrounded, then shouldn't you also be able to extend an undersized egc? Seems like that would be the safer extension of the two
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That is exactly what he is saying. Yes, you can extend an existing grounded circuit with modern NM.

Note that, when extending an ungrounded circuit, you should not connect new EGCs to anything.

They don't want one malfunctioning 3-wire load energizing another 3-wire load through the EGC.
 
I know there is a rule in the 2020 cycle talking about extending circuits without having to make the circuit compliant with current code.
Without getting out the code book, lazy this morning, I remember it limited the distance and you could only use splicing junction boxes. So I interpreted it as being written to allow you to relocate an exiting outlet without having to upgrade the whole circuit.

I don't know what any pre-2020 rules allow.
 
augie47 said:
Note 406.4(D) requires replacement receptacles to be the Arc-Fault or Arc-Faulr protected if they are being installed in an area requiring AFCI per 21012(A) or (B)
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Couldn’t this be done at main panel with arc fault breaker? And if so where would you get such a breaker?

Code also allows a breaker-receptacle arc fault combination but I’m not sure if these are made yet
 
Sea Nile said:
I know there is a rule in the 2020 cycle talking about extending circuits without having to make the circuit compliant with current code.
Without getting out the code book, lazy this morning, I remember it limited the distance and you could only use splicing junction boxes. So I interpreted it as being written to allow you to relocate an exiting outlet without having to upgrade the whole circuit.

I don't know what any pre-2020 rules allow.
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I think within 70 feet of breaker receptacle AFCI for 12 AWG NMC or 50 feet for 14 AWG
 
You would still need to comply with 250.130(C)
If extending a non egc circuit, I do not believe a gfci will suffice, they only cover existing not extension.
 
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