Repurposing an 8/2 wire...

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EEEC

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Location
Benicia, CA, USA
JFletcher said:
The chemicals to keep the spa chemistry correct cost 20x what a length of 6/2 costs (unless those were freebies too). and I dont want to know how the wiring from the disco to the tub is going to be done... sorry, but 680 installs are really not places to cut corners (not that anyplace really is, but especially not 680 installs).

I can guarantee you a visit from a spa tech to change the panelboard to 30A will cost more than the 6/2 or even 4/2 to wire it 60A, if that's where it's set at now; maybe ask her sister what the breaker sizes are/were for the spa at her place. btw, a spa of that age may very well have cracked plumbing fittings from age and chemicals, ofc you wont find out until you fill it and run all the pumps. Just moving the spa can cause them to snap/leak/crack.

Also, it is a good idea to go thru and check all the bonds in the pool panel to make sure they are there, tight, and not corroded. Last used spa I did had all of these problems (loose grounds, cracked fittings, set at 60A). Not saying you will but they are things to look at when installing a used spa.
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If the manufacturer's service manual says that adjusting the board is a safe option for utilizing an existing circuit, is that considered cutting corners?

Since an 8/2 SE cable is rated at 40A, would protecting it with a 30A breaker be considered unsafe for a 680 install?

Please understand that I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I'm having a serious conversation.... Thanks!
 
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EEEC

Member
Location
Benicia, CA, USA
mbrooke said:
Why Copper? Use some 6/3 or 4/3 AL. It will a heck of a lot cheaper (and quicker).
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I always use copper in all my installs. It easier for me to get my hands on, is a better conductor, and is more corrosion resistant (live near brackish water). The inspectors around here find it more favorable as well. It's just what i use I guess. :p
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
EEEC said:
If the manufacturer's service manual says that adjusting the board is a safe option for utilizing an existing circuit, is that considered cutting corners?

Since an 8/2 SE cable is rated at 40A, would protecting it with a 30A breaker be considered unsafe for a 680 install?

Please understand that I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I'm having a serious conversation.... Thanks!
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Nothing wrong with using that SE cable at all as long as the spa needs only 240 volts and not 120/240. You could use it for anything between 15 and 40 amp circuit. As mentioned it would not be allowed connected directly to the spa, but could terminate in the spa disconnect.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
EEEC said:
If the manufacturer's service manual says that adjusting the board is a safe option for utilizing an existing circuit, is that considered cutting corners?

Since an 8/2 SE cable is rated at 40A, would protecting it with a 30A breaker be considered unsafe for a 680 install?

Please understand that I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I'm having a serious conversation.... Thanks!
Click to expand...

My "cutting corners" comment wasnt based on board adjustment, but that you have not stated in any way how you intend to wire from the disco to the tub. Not that you have to, but given your other questions, I wondered how you would do it, then decided I didnt want to know. I apologize, that was snarky. Please look in article 680 on how that may be done if you've any questions.

Also, running that spa at 30A imposes some operational limitations which may not be acceptable to the customer. Your friend may not mind, but every spa install Ive done, the customer would have been blowing up my phone had I installed wiring to it be only capable of 30A.

As for your second question, no, running (used) 8/2 SE on a 30A OCPD from the panel to the disco is not unsafe. Just saying, in my experience, it isnt worth it, for the numerous reasons I previously listed.

Spas are a bit of a luxury item; if you can afford to buy one (get one free), and maintain it properly, you can afford to wire it properly as well. "Properly" to me is by Code, above it, not impose operational limitations by the method of wiring, and run its water chemistry correctly. None of that is free, and it's wholly unreasonable for anyone to expect you to wire one for free, even family.

Sorry, the whole topic is a sore point as lots of spa owners spend 7k+ on a spa, 5k for the deck it sits on, then complain bitterly about a <1k electrical service to run it. Trying to hack or cobble together parts for a body of water you sit in that is connected to electrical is Darwin Award material for me, and I sleep very well at night knowing all the spa installs Ive done are either right or by someone else. Not trying to be sarcastic either, I've also seen too many public pools and private spas with egregious safety violations and substandard or non existent water chemistry. It is truly amazing to me more people arent made sick, injured, or killed thru crappy 680 installs and operations.
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
EEEC said:
I always use copper in all my installs. It easier for me to get my hands on, is a better conductor, and is more corrosion resistant (live near brackish water). The inspectors around here find it more favorable as well. It's just what i use I guess. :p
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Try AL on jobs, it will save you $$$$ putting you above others. Weight for weight AL is actually many times better with conductivity. Most of what you here about AL is pure myth.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Just thought of this... if a GFCI disconnect were used, isnt that disco considered a subpanel? Even if it isnt, the GFCI breaker must have its pigtail to the neutral, and the neutral and ground cannot be the same wire, so 8/2 wouldnt cut it... I know you're going with a panel GFCI vs a GFCI disco, just wanted to double check for my own edification.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
JFletcher said:
Also, running that spa at 30A imposes some operational limitations which may not be acceptable to the customer. Your friend may not mind, but every spa install Ive done, the customer would have been blowing up my phone had I installed wiring to it be only capable of 30A.

...

Sorry, the whole topic is a sore point as lots of spa owners spend 7k+ on a spa, 5k for the deck it sits on, then complain bitterly about a <1k electrical service to run it.
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I kind of presumed he wanted to put it on a 30 amp breaker because that is what the spa calls for. There are some out there that do only run on a 30 amp circuit, though you don't run into them very often. I have one that is considered a portable unit is big enough for 2 people, maybe 3 if they are not very big, and only has a 5-15 cord cap already on the unit. How they get away with that is it does not heat while running in high jet mode (user mode) pump runs at a low speed when heating.

I have seen people complain about the cost to wire it as well and sort of see things as you do on that topic. I think many times they just don't consider finding out what it will take ahead of time, and then comes the shock at installation time. This goes for a lot of other things as well, they don't realize those items need power, until they don't have power, or they think it will just plug in to an existing outlet maybe?
 
H

hkme

Member
Grounding rod won't replace equipment grounding conductor.

Grounding rod won't replace equipment grounding conductor.

Many people think a ground rod provides a "good ground path". The truth is that even if you obtain a 25 ohm grounding path, it won't even trip a 15 amp breaker if you hook the wire with 120V directly to it. The most you will do is drive worms out of the ground. Do the math. Ohms law says w/25 ohms and 120V you will only have a current draw of 4.8 amps. Not enough to trip a breaker, but enough voltage to electrocute someone.
 
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