Requesting Labor and material cost breakdown on job quotations

[mull982]

I work in an industrial plant where I'm constantly requesting quotes from outside electrical contractors to perform electrcial installation/service/upgrades etc.... Typically these quotes are submitted as a lump sum cost including both the labor, material cost and everything rolled into one price.

Is it typical, or would it be out of the norm to request a labor, and material cost breakdown on these quotes? If not to specifically but rather to see the total amount of man hr budgeted as well as a total material cost including whatever the markup is? This way when comparing quotes you can compare like aspects of the quote to see who is trying to get away with quoting less hrs to take shortcuts etc...

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

 

[480sparky]

If Joe's Electric charges $100/hour and has 20 hours bid, Fred's Electric charges $200/hour and can get it done in 10 hours, which would you choose?

 

[LarryFine]

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

We often get that question asked here by EC's who have received the request, and the responses vary from "Ask him why he wants the info," to "I'll break it down for an additional charge," to "Tell him no, this is the price, period."

So, what would you do with the data? Ask one guy to supply materials and another to supply the labor? (Of course not. (I hope.)) Offer to supply materials yourself? (I'd charge more for labor in that case, and offer zero warranty.)

What does knowing the split tell you? What if one guy is 60% labor/40% material, and another the opposite? Which would you choose, and why? What are "shortcuts?" You can eliminate variables in the specs, such as new-only equipment.

I'm not picking on you, just making conversation and exploring the topic with you. We don't get the chance to discuss this with the 'other side' very often.

 

[LarryFine]

If Joe's Electric charges $100/hour and has 20 hours bid, Fred's Electric charges $200/hour and can get it done in 10 hours, which would you choose?

The only thing you can directly compare would be man/hours. If you have time constraints, that eliminates the small company. If not, a one-man shop can do it.

 

[480sparky]

The only thing you can directly compare would be man/hours. If you have time constraints, that eliminates the small company. If not, a one-man shop can do it.

Joe's Electric might throw two guys at it at the same time.

 

[buzzbar]

As an electrical contractor, this type of request is annoying. It's been my experience that people who ask for this type of detail are not worth working for. No offense.

We're all out here to make a living, as are you, and I always try to quote a fair price. I can't speak for everyone, but I prefer to develop a relationship with a customer, and over time, we trust each other. This means that while my price might not always be the cheapest, I will always go out of my way to make sure the job is done properly. Everybody wins that way.

It's taken me years to figure out that the people who simply line up all of the cost columns, and do not look at the service/quality/dependability are NOT the people that will be loyal to me. They're also usually the ones that don't pay their bills. Sorry if I sound bitter, but I really want to help others avoid this type of situation.

Andrew

 

[Sparky555]

I work in an industrial plant where I'm constantly requesting quotes from outside electrical contractors to perform electrcial installation/service/upgrades etc.... Typically these quotes are submitted as a lump sum cost including both the labor, material cost and everything rolled into one price.

Is it typical, or would it be out of the norm to request a labor, and material cost breakdown on these quotes? If not to specifically but rather to see the total amount of man hr budgeted as well as a total material cost including whatever the markup is? This way when comparing quotes you can compare like aspects of the quote to see who is trying to get away with quoting less hrs to take shortcuts etc...

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

Providing quotes for those that request them is usually an unpaid service. That's not an issue for the electrical contractor getting the job but is an issue for the contractor without the job. It usually takes 2 hours minimum to provide a quote and can often take over 4 hours. How would you feel providing a service w/o pay for 4-20 hours per week.

This is especially the case where you're requesting quotes often from more than two contractors. The odds of getting work from you are 1 in 2, 1 in 3, 1 in 4, etc. Now you want more information from these contractors, in effect asking them to provide more unpaid service? Do you understand how this could be annoying?

 

[Kdog76]

The only thing you can directly compare would be man/hours. If you have time constraints, that eliminates the small company. If not, a one-man shop can do it.

I think that there's a scope of work involved here also for comparison...& Don't be so quick to rule out the small shops.

 

[dbuckley]

Come on guys lets not go rabid here; lets see if we can find out from the OP why, what or how this info is useful to him...

 

[480sparky]

You can certainly ask for a breakdown. But don't be surprised if some don't want to be forthcoming with such information.

In my experience, anyone who asks for a broken-down bid isn't worth the time to break it down for. I am under no obligation to provide one, and I never have and doubt I ever will.

I'd rather spend my time on finding where along the other side of the fence the grass is greener.

 

[LarryFine]

... Don't be so quick to rule out the small shops.

I'm not. I am a small shop. You may have misunderstood my point.

(Don't feel bad - I often have the same trouble. )

 

[Buck Parrish]

I work in an industrial plant where I'm constantly requesting quotes from outside electrical contractors to perform electrcial installation/service/upgrades etc.... Typically these quotes are submitted as a lump sum cost including both the labor, material cost and everything rolled into one price.

Is it typical, or would it be out of the norm to request a labor, and material cost breakdown on these quotes? If not to specifically but rather to see the total amount of man hr budgeted as well as a total material cost including whatever the markup is? This way when comparing quotes you can compare like aspects of the quote to see who is trying to get away with quoting less hrs to take shortcuts etc...

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

Some large companies that require outside maintnance will hire an unbiased electrician to oversee and or review quotes material and procedures. May be a semi retired electrical contractor or a commercial electrician that may have some physical reason he is not in the field any more.
It can save your company lots of money.

 

[okeefe]

I rencently was asked to bid for worst case repair with a breakdown on material and labor, but if it was found that I did not have to do all the work in my proposal to correct the problem, I could only request a payment for the work that was done to correct the problem. My point is they already have breakdown to look at to make sure that I am billing them correctly. I was not intrested in this style of doing buisiness.

 

[Cow]

I think breaking down the price would lead to nitpicking. I'm here to install blah blah blah, not haggle with the customer over what he thinks my markup should be.

I think if the EC did a job T&M for you it would be a little more understandable for you wanting to see labor and material broke into two seperate lump sums. I still probably wouldn't show the individual unit prices though...

I'm not an EC though, just an employee so take it for what's it's worth.

 

[sparky=t]

I work in an industrial plant where I'm constantly requesting quotes from outside electrical contractors to perform electrcial installation/service/upgrades etc.... Typically these quotes are submitted as a lump sum cost including both the labor, material cost and everything rolled into one price.

Is it typical, or would it be out of the norm to request a labor, and material cost breakdown on these quotes? If not to specifically but rather to see the total amount of man hr budgeted as well as a total material cost including whatever the markup is? This way when comparing quotes you can compare like aspects of the quote to see who is trying to get away with quoting less hrs to take shortcuts etc...

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

do work at a mall that asks for the same thing, I break out material, labor, rentals, p&o and permit. do not itemize though, if you want that get a t&m not to exceed price

 

[mull982]

My question was based out of pure curosity, however I see where it could be annoying to contractors.

I guess the primary reason for asking this I could think of would be to create a basline for all of the quotes from a labor perspective.

For example lets say that both contractor A and B produce quotes that have an almost identical, or similar material cost portion of the quote. However contractor A has a labor time and cost that is half of that of contractor B. It would lead me to ask the following questions?

1) Is contractor A going do do a quality job seeing that they are only half the labor of contractor B?

2) Will contractor B be able to meet the project schedule and deadlines considering they are taking much longer to complete the work? On the same token I would ask weather contractor A will be able to complete to meet the project schedule if he is underestimating the work and thus will eventually take longer then stated in quote.

3) Does contractor A see something that is missing from the engineering drawings that he will try to make money on in the form of a change order once the project has started and thus is quoting cheaper at the forefront? It would make me second guess if all the engineering details and drawings were complete?

I'm sure there are other questions that could be asked, however these are the most obvious ones that come to mind in my curiosity.

 

[quogueelectric]

Bottom line is at BEST you get what you pay for.. If you pay for the high quality you have a degree of quality and assurance that the job will be done at a high quality . If you cut corners you have noone to blame but yourself for irritation factor.

 

[macmikeman]

Some large companies that require outside maintnance will hire an unbiased electrician to oversee and or review quotes material and procedures. May be a semi retired electrical contractor or a commercial electrician that may have some physical reason he is not in the field any more.
It can save your company lots of money.

These qualities described are precisely the ones that I would avoid at all costs if I was that large company and wanted to continue making good profits. A good old electrician does not make for a good businessman or consultant on something he probably does not really understand- business for profit.

 

[nyhockey]

I work in an industrial plant where I'm constantly requesting quotes from outside electrical contractors to perform electrcial installation/service/upgrades etc.... Typically these quotes are submitted as a lump sum cost including both the labor, material cost and everything rolled into one price.

Is it typical, or would it be out of the norm to request a labor, and material cost breakdown on these quotes? If not to specifically but rather to see the total amount of man hr budgeted as well as a total material cost including whatever the markup is? This way when comparing quotes you can compare like aspects of the quote to see who is trying to get away with quoting less hrs to take shortcuts etc...

Just wanted to hear others thoughts.

This is a common thing in NYC on jobs 500K and larger. This breakdown in the GC's eyes helps with extras.

 

[480sparky]

.........This breakdown in the GC's eyes helps with extras.

Providing a breakdown does does nothing more than give the GC ammunition to pick apart any extras. This is why some ECs don't like it.